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Along with Proton, Steam Play, the Steam Deck, Easy Anti-Cheat support for Wine, Battleye suppport for wine, FSR and a bunch of other stuff, this means that gam

by Zhyl 5y ago

Along with Proton, Steam Play, the Steam Deck, Easy Anti-Cheat support for Wine, Battleye suppport for wine, FSR and a bunch of other stuff, this means that gaming is getting more viable on Linux. It isn't there yet, but it's close.

sandworm101 5y ago
It is there now. I play all sorts of games on Linux, including VR. Some AAA titles are still a no-go but perfection should cannot be the enemy good. I'd say that linux is more useful than any console. Every console can only play approved games, limiting each to a subset of the total number of playable games in the world. Linux, via proton/wine, can today play more games than any console. So if gaming on consoles is a thing today (it is) then gaming on linux is too. I have read that "gaming" now requires more than just playing games, that you also need to be able to stream and edit videos in order to "game". I think that definition goes to far as I am certainly a gamer but have never felt any desire to stream.
- Zhyl 5y ago
  It's on a per-case basis I think. I will call it 'ready' when I can pick up a Linux PC or a Steam Deck off of the shelf with zero fiddling, install and boot up a {Steam, Multiplayer, Non-Steam, comes-with-own-launcher-on-PC} game without any fuss and just play. Proton has made more games playable than ever before, but there are still those that won't run [0]. EAC and Battleye have announced official support for both Linux and WINE, but still many games are unplayable due to anti-cheat not being supported for those particular games [1]. Steam Deck is coming, but is not out yet. The Steam Deck UI and SteamOS 3.0 looks like it will be a better replacement for Steam OS 1-2 and Steam Machines by an order of magnitude, but they aren't there yet [2]. Linux active users on steam are at the highest they've been since the release of proton, but still haven't pushed through 3% (and currently around 1%) [3] So all in all, all the elements are coming together and a LOT of investment is going into it. 2022 will be an exciting year for Gaming on Linux. But it isn't there yet [0] https://protondb.com https://protondb.com [1] https://areweanticheatyet.com/ https://areweanticheatyet.com/ [2] https://boilingsteam.com/steam-deck-developer-kit-impressions/ https://boilingsteam.com/steam-deck-developer-kit-impression... [3] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Steam-Linux-December-2021 https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Steam-Li...
  - krastanov 5y ago
    I probably mostly agree with you, but the standard you are holding Linux/Wine/Proton to in your first paragraph is definitely not met even by Windows (any version).
    - Zhyl 5y ago
      I mean that's fair. I think even getting to Windows parity, warts and all, would be good.
  - sandworm101 5y ago
    >> when I can pick up a Linux PC or a Steam Deck off of the shelf with zero fiddling, install and boot up a {Steam, Multiplayer, Non-Steam, comes-with-own-launcher-on-PC} game without any fuss and just play. That is today. Buy any linux PC from any number of vendors. Download KSP and play. Download the steam client and play Factorio. Or install wine/proton and play Subnautica. My brother owns an Xbox. He wants to play star citizen but cannot on xbox. In fact there are thousands of games that don't run on xbox. That doesn't mean that xbox isn't a fully-fledged gaming device.
    - Zhyl 5y ago
      > Buy any linux PC from any number of vendors I choose Currys [0] > Download KSP and play I choose Fortnite > My brother owns an Xbox. He wants to play star citizen but cannot on xbox. In fact there are thousands of games that don't run on xbox. That doesn't mean that xbox isn't a fully-fledged gaming device. True, I guess it will be up to the gaming community as to whether Linux needs PC/Windows parity in order to be worth using or whether it can be considered its own platform which is worthwhile despite not having any of the games from the links in my above post. [0] https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/search-keywords/xx_xx_xx_xx_xx/linux/xx-criteria.html https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/search-keywords/xx_xx_xx_xx_xx...
      - sandworm101 5y ago
        >> it will be up to the gaming community No. It is up to gamers. I don't care about Microsoft, RockStar or PewdiePie's position on the state of linux gaming. All the matters is the people who actually play the games.
- zamadatix 5y ago
  Linux has always played some set of games well enough, usually enough to keep a person busy I'd argue, but the experience has remained subpar and excludes the most common games which is what people mean by viability. E.g. of the 10 most popular Steam games the only 3 that are green (and they are all Steam exclusives which bumps their Steam numbers a bit), the rest either don't launch at all or have severe bugs/limitations. Similarly "nothing has every game" doesn't mean "everything with a game is equally comparable", Steam on Linux is missing significantly more of the top 10 titles than those same 10 titles on console for example. This also largely extends into the top 100 or outside of Steam. It's almost there though, one of my friends is finally able to play some of the games with us via his Linux install but he still has a Windows install he boots to for most games. A couple years ago he didn't even bother and just ran all gaming from Windows because it was giving too much trouble for too few games. As long as it keeps moving in this direction it will be good!
  - sandworm101 5y ago
    >> but the experience has remained subpar and excludes the most common games Minecraft. KSP. Factorio. Counter-strike. Rocket League. Among Us. >> E.g. of the 10 most popular Steam games the only 3 that are green (and they are all Steam exclusives which bumps their Steam numbers a bit) Which list are you looking at? Sales or how many people are actually playing these games? I couldn't care less about which games sell the most. What matters is which games are actually being played, something very different than sales. According to this list, the bulk of the most popular games run fine on linux, several natively. https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/top-20-pc-games/ https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/top-20-pc-games/
    - bentheklutz 5y ago
      Rocket League has been officially unsupported for linux since the beginning of 2020[0]. One can still play it via means others in the thread have mentioned, but for me it’s more notable in this conversation as a popular title that had native linux support and lost it later on. [0] https://www.rocketleague.com/news/ending-support-for-mac-and-linux/ https://www.rocketleague.com/news/ending-support-for-mac-and...
- babypuncher 5y ago
  I don't stream on twitch but I'll regularly show off a game or something to friends by streaming on Discord. More than half of the top played games are still silver or worse on ProtonDB so I really don't think we can go around saying Linux is a viable option for most PC gamers. It's good on a case-by-case basis.
edflsafoiewq 5y ago
Does it? Isn't this just re-implementing stuff that works in X11 to work in Wayland now?
- Zhyl 5y ago
  Yes, but the vast majority of games on Linux now run through WINE and the world is moving to Wayland. (notably Valve's Gamescope which will be used in the Steam Deck[0]). [0] https://github.com/Plagman/gamescope https://github.com/Plagman/gamescope
yepthatsreality 5y ago
The only piece not there is the anti-cheat software support. Most games run perfectly fine, even better than Windows usually. Players just get kicked from online games because of the anti-cheat software recognizing the OS as Linux distribution. This is mostly on lazy companies who can’t seem to make a simple update to support the proper anti-cheat binaries.
babypuncher 5y ago
Have any games actually enabled EAC or BattleEye for Wine/Proton yet? So far it's feeling like they put in a whole lot of work for nothing.
- oynqr 5y ago
  Planetside 2 comes to mind. Although the performance in big fights is usually terrible.
- yaomtc 5y ago
  https://areweanticheatyet.com/ https://areweanticheatyet.com/ Also, the Steam Deck isn't out yet, which is what this work has been building towards. There's no reason to say "for nothing" yet
yaomtc 5y ago
> Easy Anti-Cheat support Only the newer of two types of EAC: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/01/easy-anti-cheat-not-as-simple-as-expected-for-proton-and-steam-deck/ https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/01/easy-anti-cheat-not-as...

by Zhyl 5y ago

sandworm101 5y ago

It is there now. I play all sorts of games on Linux, including VR. Some AAA titles are still a no-go but perfection should cannot be the enemy good. I'd say that linux is more useful than any console. Every console can only play approved games, limiting each to a subset of the total number of playable games in the world. Linux, via proton/wine, can today play more games than any console. So if gaming on consoles is a thing today (it is) then gaming on linux is too. I have read that "gaming" now requires more than just playing games, that you also need to be able to stream and edit videos in order to "game". I think that definition goes to far as I am certainly a gamer but have never felt any desire to stream.

Zhyl 5y ago
It's on a per-case basis I think. I will call it 'ready' when I can pick up a Linux PC or a Steam Deck off of the shelf with zero fiddling, install and boot up a {Steam, Multiplayer, Non-Steam, comes-with-own-launcher-on-PC} game without any fuss and just play. Proton has made more games playable than ever before, but there are still those that won't run [0]. EAC and Battleye have announced official support for both Linux and WINE, but still many games are unplayable due to anti-cheat not being supported for those particular games [1]. Steam Deck is coming, but is not out yet. The Steam Deck UI and SteamOS 3.0 looks like it will be a better replacement for Steam OS 1-2 and Steam Machines by an order of magnitude, but they aren't there yet [2]. Linux active users on steam are at the highest they've been since the release of proton, but still haven't pushed through 3% (and currently around 1%) [3] So all in all, all the elements are coming together and a LOT of investment is going into it. 2022 will be an exciting year for Gaming on Linux. But it isn't there yet [0] https://protondb.com https://protondb.com [1] https://areweanticheatyet.com/ https://areweanticheatyet.com/ [2] https://boilingsteam.com/steam-deck-developer-kit-impressions/ https://boilingsteam.com/steam-deck-developer-kit-impression... [3] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Steam-Linux-December-2021 https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Steam-Li...
- krastanov 5y ago
  I probably mostly agree with you, but the standard you are holding Linux/Wine/Proton to in your first paragraph is definitely not met even by Windows (any version).
  - Zhyl 5y ago
    I mean that's fair. I think even getting to Windows parity, warts and all, would be good.
- sandworm101 5y ago
  >> when I can pick up a Linux PC or a Steam Deck off of the shelf with zero fiddling, install and boot up a {Steam, Multiplayer, Non-Steam, comes-with-own-launcher-on-PC} game without any fuss and just play. That is today. Buy any linux PC from any number of vendors. Download KSP and play. Download the steam client and play Factorio. Or install wine/proton and play Subnautica. My brother owns an Xbox. He wants to play star citizen but cannot on xbox. In fact there are thousands of games that don't run on xbox. That doesn't mean that xbox isn't a fully-fledged gaming device.
  - Zhyl 5y ago
    > Buy any linux PC from any number of vendors I choose Currys [0] > Download KSP and play I choose Fortnite > My brother owns an Xbox. He wants to play star citizen but cannot on xbox. In fact there are thousands of games that don't run on xbox. That doesn't mean that xbox isn't a fully-fledged gaming device. True, I guess it will be up to the gaming community as to whether Linux needs PC/Windows parity in order to be worth using or whether it can be considered its own platform which is worthwhile despite not having any of the games from the links in my above post. [0] https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/search-keywords/xx_xx_xx_xx_xx/linux/xx-criteria.html https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/search-keywords/xx_xx_xx_xx_xx...
    - sandworm101 5y ago
      >> it will be up to the gaming community No. It is up to gamers. I don't care about Microsoft, RockStar or PewdiePie's position on the state of linux gaming. All the matters is the people who actually play the games.
zamadatix 5y ago
Linux has always played some set of games well enough, usually enough to keep a person busy I'd argue, but the experience has remained subpar and excludes the most common games which is what people mean by viability. E.g. of the 10 most popular Steam games the only 3 that are green (and they are all Steam exclusives which bumps their Steam numbers a bit), the rest either don't launch at all or have severe bugs/limitations. Similarly "nothing has every game" doesn't mean "everything with a game is equally comparable", Steam on Linux is missing significantly more of the top 10 titles than those same 10 titles on console for example. This also largely extends into the top 100 or outside of Steam. It's almost there though, one of my friends is finally able to play some of the games with us via his Linux install but he still has a Windows install he boots to for most games. A couple years ago he didn't even bother and just ran all gaming from Windows because it was giving too much trouble for too few games. As long as it keeps moving in this direction it will be good!
- sandworm101 5y ago
  >> but the experience has remained subpar and excludes the most common games Minecraft. KSP. Factorio. Counter-strike. Rocket League. Among Us. >> E.g. of the 10 most popular Steam games the only 3 that are green (and they are all Steam exclusives which bumps their Steam numbers a bit) Which list are you looking at? Sales or how many people are actually playing these games? I couldn't care less about which games sell the most. What matters is which games are actually being played, something very different than sales. According to this list, the bulk of the most popular games run fine on linux, several natively. https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/top-20-pc-games/ https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/top-20-pc-games/
  - bentheklutz 5y ago
    Rocket League has been officially unsupported for linux since the beginning of 2020[0]. One can still play it via means others in the thread have mentioned, but for me it’s more notable in this conversation as a popular title that had native linux support and lost it later on. [0] https://www.rocketleague.com/news/ending-support-for-mac-and-linux/ https://www.rocketleague.com/news/ending-support-for-mac-and...
babypuncher 5y ago
I don't stream on twitch but I'll regularly show off a game or something to friends by streaming on Discord. More than half of the top played games are still silver or worse on ProtonDB so I really don't think we can go around saying Linux is a viable option for most PC gamers. It's good on a case-by-case basis.

edflsafoiewq 5y ago

Does it? Isn't this just re-implementing stuff that works in X11 to work in Wayland now?

Zhyl 5y ago
Yes, but the vast majority of games on Linux now run through WINE and the world is moving to Wayland. (notably Valve's Gamescope which will be used in the Steam Deck[0]). [0] https://github.com/Plagman/gamescope https://github.com/Plagman/gamescope

yepthatsreality 5y ago

The only piece not there is the anti-cheat software support. Most games run perfectly fine, even better than Windows usually. Players just get kicked from online games because of the anti-cheat software recognizing the OS as Linux distribution. This is mostly on lazy companies who can’t seem to make a simple update to support the proper anti-cheat binaries.

babypuncher 5y ago

Have any games actually enabled EAC or BattleEye for Wine/Proton yet? So far it's feeling like they put in a whole lot of work for nothing.

oynqr 5y ago
Planetside 2 comes to mind. Although the performance in big fights is usually terrible.
yaomtc 5y ago
https://areweanticheatyet.com/ https://areweanticheatyet.com/ Also, the Steam Deck isn't out yet, which is what this work has been building towards. There's no reason to say "for nothing" yet

yaomtc 5y ago

> Easy Anti-Cheat support Only the newer of two types of EAC: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/01/easy-anti-cheat-not-as-simple-as-expected-for-proton-and-steam-deck/ https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/01/easy-anti-cheat-not-as...