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Learn from South Korea: all top tech companies are unionized. #1 search engine (Naver), #1 messenger (Kakao), #1 game company (Nexon), etc.

nvr219 5y ago
I thought Samsung was the top tech company.
- sanxiyn 5y ago
  Samsung union situation is in a bit of chaos, but it is in progress: https://samsunglabor.co.kr/ https://samsunglabor.co.kr/ Edit: if you want to learn more, here is a news article titled "Samsung Electronics concludes its first collective bargaining" (Maeil Business, 2021-08-12) https://news.v.daum.net/v/20210812160601200 https://news.v.daum.net/v/20210812160601200
Zigurd 5y ago
I saw a picket line in Korea while I was there on business. It gave the impression that unionization is pretty robust there. It wasn't at a tech company, as far as I could tell. But I would not try to cross that picket line.
Extropy_ 5y ago
What do we learn from that?
- sanxiyn 5y ago
  That unions work in tech companies. Naver/Kakao/Nexon almost simultaneously unionized in 2018, and now some time has passed it is possible to evaluate. It worked great so far.
  - harles 5y ago
    By what metrics has this worked great? Genuinely curious as I hadn’t heard this before.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    But you're not telling us how it's great. You're just repeating that it's great.
    - sanxiyn 5y ago
      Compensation increased rapidly and more importantly compensation became more transparent. Unions collect compensation data and share analysis and anonymized statistics. All unions succeeded at the initial goal of striking down no overtime pay clause in contract. In pandemic, unions represented workers' concern about safety well. Etc.
blululu 5y ago
Not sure what the lesson is? South Korea is a very different country. Their laws and constitution were written by New Deal Democrats at a time when there was almost no existing industry and no opposition from the likes of Robert Taft and Henry Ford. The situation is very different in 21st century America. Unions can be a productive part of an industrial system, but just throwing up a union is not really going to solve things that simply.
- monocasa 5y ago
  Their constitution has been completely rewritten several times, most recently in 1987.
  - blululu 5y ago
    The original 1948 constitution stands with a series of amendments. The June Democracy movement of 1987 did not rewrite the constitution, they merely passed an amendment limiting the powers of the executive branch and strengthening democratic process. Collective bargaining rights have always been a feature in the South Korean economy and it would be exceedingly difficult for anyone to change this.
    - monocasa 5y ago
      Amendments not like the US Constitution amendments, but including ones that rewrite the whole of the constitution. That's how they've gone back and forth between a presidential system and a parliamentary system, and frankly between a semi functioning democracy and an outright dictatorship. The point is, they're not simply keeping the collective bargaining rights because they're too difficult to change since the 1940s. The ROK have no qualms making massive changes to the very core of their constitution, including rewriting what got in the way of a corporatist dictatorship under Park.
VirusNewbie 5y ago
Is that why their software is so good? Is that why they have better work life balance and higher pay?
- sanxiyn 5y ago
  Honestly yes? Higher pay, less overtime. Enjoy https://github.com/line/armeria https://github.com/line/armeria from a unionized tech company of South Korea!
  - VirusNewbie 5y ago
    Higher pay? You can't be serious. SWEs can make 200-300 without a college degree working from home?
spaetzleesser 5y ago
I think Germany is a pretty good model. The big companies are unionized and also very competitive on the world market.
dehrmann 5y ago
I do find it interesting that those aren't exactly global brands. South Korea also has the whole Chaebol thing going on, so it might not be the best example of business ethics. > #1 game company (Nexon) Aren't Startcraft and League of Legends more popular? Being the #1 game company in South Korea doesn't imply you make the #1 games there.

nvr219 5y ago

I thought Samsung was the top tech company.

sanxiyn 5y ago
Samsung union situation is in a bit of chaos, but it is in progress: https://samsunglabor.co.kr/ https://samsunglabor.co.kr/ Edit: if you want to learn more, here is a news article titled "Samsung Electronics concludes its first collective bargaining" (Maeil Business, 2021-08-12) https://news.v.daum.net/v/20210812160601200 https://news.v.daum.net/v/20210812160601200

Zigurd 5y ago

I saw a picket line in Korea while I was there on business. It gave the impression that unionization is pretty robust there. It wasn't at a tech company, as far as I could tell. But I would not try to cross that picket line.

Extropy_ 5y ago

What do we learn from that?

sanxiyn 5y ago
That unions work in tech companies. Naver/Kakao/Nexon almost simultaneously unionized in 2018, and now some time has passed it is possible to evaluate. It worked great so far.
- harles 5y ago
  By what metrics has this worked great? Genuinely curious as I hadn’t heard this before.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  But you're not telling us how it's great. You're just repeating that it's great.
  - sanxiyn 5y ago
    Compensation increased rapidly and more importantly compensation became more transparent. Unions collect compensation data and share analysis and anonymized statistics. All unions succeeded at the initial goal of striking down no overtime pay clause in contract. In pandemic, unions represented workers' concern about safety well. Etc.

blululu 5y ago

Not sure what the lesson is? South Korea is a very different country. Their laws and constitution were written by New Deal Democrats at a time when there was almost no existing industry and no opposition from the likes of Robert Taft and Henry Ford. The situation is very different in 21st century America. Unions can be a productive part of an industrial system, but just throwing up a union is not really going to solve things that simply.

monocasa 5y ago
Their constitution has been completely rewritten several times, most recently in 1987.
- blululu 5y ago
  The original 1948 constitution stands with a series of amendments. The June Democracy movement of 1987 did not rewrite the constitution, they merely passed an amendment limiting the powers of the executive branch and strengthening democratic process. Collective bargaining rights have always been a feature in the South Korean economy and it would be exceedingly difficult for anyone to change this.
  - monocasa 5y ago
    Amendments not like the US Constitution amendments, but including ones that rewrite the whole of the constitution. That's how they've gone back and forth between a presidential system and a parliamentary system, and frankly between a semi functioning democracy and an outright dictatorship. The point is, they're not simply keeping the collective bargaining rights because they're too difficult to change since the 1940s. The ROK have no qualms making massive changes to the very core of their constitution, including rewriting what got in the way of a corporatist dictatorship under Park.

VirusNewbie 5y ago

Is that why their software is so good? Is that why they have better work life balance and higher pay?

sanxiyn 5y ago
Honestly yes? Higher pay, less overtime. Enjoy https://github.com/line/armeria https://github.com/line/armeria from a unionized tech company of South Korea!
- VirusNewbie 5y ago
  Higher pay? You can't be serious. SWEs can make 200-300 without a college degree working from home?

spaetzleesser 5y ago

I think Germany is a pretty good model. The big companies are unionized and also very competitive on the world market.

dehrmann 5y ago

I do find it interesting that those aren't exactly global brands. South Korea also has the whole Chaebol thing going on, so it might not be the best example of business ethics. > #1 game company (Nexon) Aren't Startcraft and League of Legends more popular? Being the #1 game company in South Korea doesn't imply you make the #1 games there.