5 ms·

Could you pleeease go tell all of the people that have overflowed the ICUs of the nations hospitals that they’re overreacting & should just go home with their c

by s5300 5y ago

Could you pleeease go tell all of the people that have overflowed the ICUs of the nations hospitals that they’re overreacting & should just go home with their common cold symptoms. Because there’s currently like 2500+ national guard members deployed to hospitals in my state alone, all elective procedures are cancelled in the major hospitals of multiple states (anything that won’t literally kill you in 3 days is elective, even end stage cancer surgeries), other types of appointments are backed up for months, and quite frankly - for the appointments I and acquaintances have had - providers are burnt the fuck out from two years of this. Like, seriously. When thousands of national guard members have to be routed to civilian hospitals to keep them running - I don’t think “science” is taking a loss. It said this was going to happen, all of you “it’s just the common cold” people made everybody rage against science and not care, and now nobody can get meaningful healthcare because the person the nurses & attendings are referring to as “the walking dead” just have to be kept alive & filling an ICU bed for 3+ weeks stuffed with a ventilator they’re never going to have removed until they’re dead.

fasteddie31003 5y ago
I said it's over for me. For my elderly parents or unhealthy people, it's not over.
- s5300 5y ago
  What do you mean by unhealthy? I have a friend, perfectly healthy, who was forced into crashing on their bike during commute in order to not get wrecked by a car. He fell & broke a few ribs & wrist, was not able to be seen for 28 hours in a major city. He’s still waiting on actual treatment (surgeries) & could/likely will have long lasting damaging from the delay. Perhaps it’s over except for our entire healthcare system has completely collapsed in the sense that it’s genuinely non-functional, except for keeping wave after wave of people, who workers already know are not leaving the hospital alive, in a bed for a few weeks. Perhaps I’m a bit angry, but I think it’s not at all considerate of your fellow citizens to say things like this - presuming you’re in the US, that is.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    I think that is mostly due to USA having for profit hospitals so they don't care about who occupies the bed as long as they pay. Other countries seems to have much less hospitalisations for similar number of cases, probably because they judge that most people don't really need it so putting them in a hospital is just a waste of resources.
    - s5300 5y ago
      Keeping in mind I can always be wrong or remembering incorrectly I really thought there was some good data that came out showing that the profits made from elective surgeries that the mid to large hospitals churn out absolutely dwarfs the profits made from COVID patients. I think there were a few of the massive hospitals where COVID patients $ was near breaking even… but it just doesn’t add up. The summary was that by the end of this a good amount of hospitals will likely go under due to revenue lost from repeated cancellations of elective surgeries unless they get some form of bailout. I guess we’ll see anyways.
    - Clubber 5y ago
      >for profit hospitals Yes, this isn't in the discussion at all. Hospitals in the US do what's called stacking. Think about your calendar. Every room, every piece of equipment and every medical staff needs to have their calendar stacked with appointments, with no idle space if at all possible. They go so far as to overbook these items as well. If a resource has too much lax time, it's not used, not replenished or laid off (personnel). If a hospital doesn't have enough business to make the desirable amount of profit, it's closed. Of course from a purely business perspective, it doesn't make sense to keep these things open, especially for a once in a century pandemic. Unfortunately the government hasn't done much (if anything) to ensure we have enough medical facilities even in good times, much less have them somewhat affordable. I was hoping the pandemic would show the cracks in our medical foundation, but for the most part they have been ignored, shifting the entirety of blame to the unvaccinated. This article is about rural hospitals, but when you close a rural hospital, you overburden the nearest city hospital. https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/why-rural-hospital-closures-hit-a-record-high-in-2020.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/why-rural-hosp...
tasogare 5y ago
USA have 2.9 hospitals bed per 1000 inhabitants, on part with Albania and less than Lebanon[1]. Japan has 13, France 6. The overflow is 100% because of underfunding of hospitals and didn't happen in any developed countries besides the first wave. [1]https://donnees.banquemondiale.org/indicator/SH.MED.BEDS.ZS?most_recent_value_desc=true https://donnees.banquemondiale.org/indicator/SH.MED.BEDS.ZS?...
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  And shockingly, Canada has less than the US...
Der_Einzige 5y ago
Use vax status in giving out ICU and other care. This whole thing is only because doctors won't have a backbone and won't refuse or include vax status in triage for unvaccinated patients. Like, I actually do not get this idea of "oh ur fucked if you get hit by a car" because it should be obvious that 80 years old grandma whose anti-vax has a lower value to life than I, a boosted young person does. We have to do value to life calculations all the time every day, even if it is unpleasant for us to say things like this outloud.
fbnakL 5y ago
I'd rather tell that to the politicians who spend trillions of dollars but are unable to set up dedicated decentralized COVID-19 care facilities. Patients mainly need oxygen, no need for full ICUs.

by s5300 5y ago

fasteddie31003 5y ago

I said it's over for me. For my elderly parents or unhealthy people, it's not over.

s5300 5y ago
What do you mean by unhealthy? I have a friend, perfectly healthy, who was forced into crashing on their bike during commute in order to not get wrecked by a car. He fell & broke a few ribs & wrist, was not able to be seen for 28 hours in a major city. He’s still waiting on actual treatment (surgeries) & could/likely will have long lasting damaging from the delay. Perhaps it’s over except for our entire healthcare system has completely collapsed in the sense that it’s genuinely non-functional, except for keeping wave after wave of people, who workers already know are not leaving the hospital alive, in a bed for a few weeks. Perhaps I’m a bit angry, but I think it’s not at all considerate of your fellow citizens to say things like this - presuming you’re in the US, that is.
- Jensson 5y ago
  I think that is mostly due to USA having for profit hospitals so they don't care about who occupies the bed as long as they pay. Other countries seems to have much less hospitalisations for similar number of cases, probably because they judge that most people don't really need it so putting them in a hospital is just a waste of resources.
  - s5300 5y ago
    Keeping in mind I can always be wrong or remembering incorrectly I really thought there was some good data that came out showing that the profits made from elective surgeries that the mid to large hospitals churn out absolutely dwarfs the profits made from COVID patients. I think there were a few of the massive hospitals where COVID patients $ was near breaking even… but it just doesn’t add up. The summary was that by the end of this a good amount of hospitals will likely go under due to revenue lost from repeated cancellations of elective surgeries unless they get some form of bailout. I guess we’ll see anyways.
  - Clubber 5y ago
    >for profit hospitals Yes, this isn't in the discussion at all. Hospitals in the US do what's called stacking. Think about your calendar. Every room, every piece of equipment and every medical staff needs to have their calendar stacked with appointments, with no idle space if at all possible. They go so far as to overbook these items as well. If a resource has too much lax time, it's not used, not replenished or laid off (personnel). If a hospital doesn't have enough business to make the desirable amount of profit, it's closed. Of course from a purely business perspective, it doesn't make sense to keep these things open, especially for a once in a century pandemic. Unfortunately the government hasn't done much (if anything) to ensure we have enough medical facilities even in good times, much less have them somewhat affordable. I was hoping the pandemic would show the cracks in our medical foundation, but for the most part they have been ignored, shifting the entirety of blame to the unvaccinated. This article is about rural hospitals, but when you close a rural hospital, you overburden the nearest city hospital. https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/why-rural-hospital-closures-hit-a-record-high-in-2020.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/why-rural-hosp...

tasogare 5y ago

USA have 2.9 hospitals bed per 1000 inhabitants, on part with Albania and less than Lebanon[1]. Japan has 13, France 6. The overflow is 100% because of underfunding of hospitals and didn't happen in any developed countries besides the first wave. [1]https://donnees.banquemondiale.org/indicator/SH.MED.BEDS.ZS?most_recent_value_desc=true https://donnees.banquemondiale.org/indicator/SH.MED.BEDS.ZS?...

Mikeb85 5y ago
And shockingly, Canada has less than the US...

Der_Einzige 5y ago

Use vax status in giving out ICU and other care. This whole thing is only because doctors won't have a backbone and won't refuse or include vax status in triage for unvaccinated patients. Like, I actually do not get this idea of "oh ur fucked if you get hit by a car" because it should be obvious that 80 years old grandma whose anti-vax has a lower value to life than I, a boosted young person does. We have to do value to life calculations all the time every day, even if it is unpleasant for us to say things like this outloud.

fbnakL 5y ago

I'd rather tell that to the politicians who spend trillions of dollars but are unable to set up dedicated decentralized COVID-19 care facilities. Patients mainly need oxygen, no need for full ICUs.