8 ms·

You mean before there was a pandemic? Sure, it's all a matter of risk factors though. When there is a pan/epidemic that puts a large group at a 5-25% risk of m

You mean before there was a pandemic? Sure, it's all a matter of risk factors though. When there is a pan/epidemic that puts a large group at a 5-25% risk of mortality, that is a special circumstance.

theodric 5y ago
This always boils down to the push-pull between self-centered and group-centered people. The self-centered only care about themselves, and favor letting the weak die to further that end. I think they sound like monsters, and they probably think I sound like a "cuck."
- throw3434053 5y ago
  I think it is the other way round. The tiny, 'selfish' fraction want to shut down the 'group' that is society because they are more at risk.
- stickfigure 5y ago
  You sound like someone who really enjoys building up and tearing down straw men.
  - theodric 5y ago
    You sound like someone who responds on message boards with ad-hominems rather than counterarguments, nice to meet you!
- peteradio 5y ago
  Let's say I walk into a movie theater/church/restaurant and nobody is wearing a mask. Is everyone else a jerk for not wearing one, or am I the jerk for expecting everyone else to?
  - readthenotes1 5y ago
    The most extrapunitive, other-blaming, people I know are sociopaths so I'm going with the latter explanation.
  - true_religion 5y ago
    Third option: You are the jerk for not wearing a mask. I mean, why would you worry about if others are unmasked when you already are vaccinated and wearing an N95 mask on top of that?
- Levitz 5y ago
  I frankly see it the other way around. I want measures to relax precisely because I think about groups and not specific people. The psychological damage being done, in a society which doesn't have the tools to deal with it properly (and with this I mean pretty much the entirety of western society) is not even being taken into account. Quality of living for a good deal of society has gone to hell, I can't even take a walk in the park without a mask on (I happen to be Spanish). It's madness. Public healthcare psychology is not even brought up by GPs anymore unless you risk suicide, and even then there is a waiting period of several months. Suicide attempts are at an all-time high and the amount of depression and anxiety backing it up can't be overstated. I feel like we are pretending we solved the trolley problem all of a sudden.
  - theodric 5y ago
    In other words, "let the weak die...I'm tired of wearing a mask." https://twitter.com/kombatliberlism/status/1481570021490974722 https://twitter.com/kombatliberlism/status/14815700214909747... I am astonished how many people prioritize the social/pub/restaurant/movie theater scene over the literal survival chances of millions of people. I guess I should stop being astonished and accept that people are driven primarily by their desires and self-interest. Cast them into the pit, I want a cheeseburger.
    - Levitz 5y ago
      >I am astonished how many people prioritize the social/pub/restaurant/movie theater scene over the literal survival chances of millions of people. We all do. We have always done this. That's why drugs exist. That's why transportation exists. Life is not a "maximize your lifespan" game, it has never been.
- sanedigital 5y ago
  You have your groups backwards. The self-centered are the ones demanding society shut down in response to their own personal fears, even if that shut-down disproportionately effects others (i.e. the poor, the young, etc.) The group-centered people are the ones willing to accept a higher degree of personal risk in order to keep schools open and supply chains functioning.
Jensson 5y ago
Life expectancy numbers dropped by about 1 years in most countries, but since it is in the middle of a pandemic it will go up again when this is done. 1 year temporary drop for just 2 years is really small, it means that if covid ravaged us like this every single year people would just die 1 year earlier on average. Divided by a lifespan of 80 years it means an average person lost about 0.025 years or about 8 days. 8 days average lifespan is worth doing something about, sure, but I doubt the magnitude of the response we have seen was actually worth it.
- edmundsauto 5y ago
  With long Covid, I don’t think it’sa given that life expectancy will go up. If that effect is not temporary, or if it lasts across generations, your comment falls apart.
  - sanedigital 5y ago
    There is no evidence that long COVID is anything other than the Post-viral syndrome we've known for decades accompanies the flu and other illnesses.
    - edmundsauto 5y ago
      I’m a little confused as to your central point. Is it that we should be more aware of the long term deleterious effects of contracting a virus? Because then I think we agree!
      - tinus_hn 5y ago
        So you propose we should lockdown every year to prevent the deleterious long term effects of the yearly flu?
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - 5y ago

theodric 5y ago

This always boils down to the push-pull between self-centered and group-centered people. The self-centered only care about themselves, and favor letting the weak die to further that end. I think they sound like monsters, and they probably think I sound like a "cuck."

throw3434053 5y ago
I think it is the other way round. The tiny, 'selfish' fraction want to shut down the 'group' that is society because they are more at risk.
stickfigure 5y ago
You sound like someone who really enjoys building up and tearing down straw men.
- theodric 5y ago
  You sound like someone who responds on message boards with ad-hominems rather than counterarguments, nice to meet you!
peteradio 5y ago
Let's say I walk into a movie theater/church/restaurant and nobody is wearing a mask. Is everyone else a jerk for not wearing one, or am I the jerk for expecting everyone else to?
- readthenotes1 5y ago
  The most extrapunitive, other-blaming, people I know are sociopaths so I'm going with the latter explanation.
- true_religion 5y ago
  Third option: You are the jerk for not wearing a mask. I mean, why would you worry about if others are unmasked when you already are vaccinated and wearing an N95 mask on top of that?
Levitz 5y ago
I frankly see it the other way around. I want measures to relax precisely because I think about groups and not specific people. The psychological damage being done, in a society which doesn't have the tools to deal with it properly (and with this I mean pretty much the entirety of western society) is not even being taken into account. Quality of living for a good deal of society has gone to hell, I can't even take a walk in the park without a mask on (I happen to be Spanish). It's madness. Public healthcare psychology is not even brought up by GPs anymore unless you risk suicide, and even then there is a waiting period of several months. Suicide attempts are at an all-time high and the amount of depression and anxiety backing it up can't be overstated. I feel like we are pretending we solved the trolley problem all of a sudden.
- theodric 5y ago
  In other words, "let the weak die...I'm tired of wearing a mask." https://twitter.com/kombatliberlism/status/1481570021490974722 https://twitter.com/kombatliberlism/status/14815700214909747... I am astonished how many people prioritize the social/pub/restaurant/movie theater scene over the literal survival chances of millions of people. I guess I should stop being astonished and accept that people are driven primarily by their desires and self-interest. Cast them into the pit, I want a cheeseburger.
  - Levitz 5y ago
    >I am astonished how many people prioritize the social/pub/restaurant/movie theater scene over the literal survival chances of millions of people. We all do. We have always done this. That's why drugs exist. That's why transportation exists. Life is not a "maximize your lifespan" game, it has never been.
sanedigital 5y ago
You have your groups backwards. The self-centered are the ones demanding society shut down in response to their own personal fears, even if that shut-down disproportionately effects others (i.e. the poor, the young, etc.) The group-centered people are the ones willing to accept a higher degree of personal risk in order to keep schools open and supply chains functioning.

Jensson 5y ago

Life expectancy numbers dropped by about 1 years in most countries, but since it is in the middle of a pandemic it will go up again when this is done. 1 year temporary drop for just 2 years is really small, it means that if covid ravaged us like this every single year people would just die 1 year earlier on average. Divided by a lifespan of 80 years it means an average person lost about 0.025 years or about 8 days. 8 days average lifespan is worth doing something about, sure, but I doubt the magnitude of the response we have seen was actually worth it.

edmundsauto 5y ago
With long Covid, I don’t think it’sa given that life expectancy will go up. If that effect is not temporary, or if it lasts across generations, your comment falls apart.
- sanedigital 5y ago
  There is no evidence that long COVID is anything other than the Post-viral syndrome we've known for decades accompanies the flu and other illnesses.
  - edmundsauto 5y ago
    I’m a little confused as to your central point. Is it that we should be more aware of the long term deleterious effects of contracting a virus? Because then I think we agree!
    - tinus_hn 5y ago
      So you propose we should lockdown every year to prevent the deleterious long term effects of the yearly flu?
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - 5y ago