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"All other ecosystems"? Not sure about that - besides Python, which another commenter mentioned, there is also PHP, which is pretty much 21st century and also "

by rob74 5y ago

"All other ecosystems"? Not sure about that - besides Python, which another commenter mentioned, there is also PHP, which is pretty much 21st century and also "batteries included". I totally get it that small teams developing a language (Node, Rust) need to focus their efforts, but please don't try to spin this limitation into a "new way of doing things". What I hate most about this "package manager"-based way is not only having to choose between a multitude of options, each with its own pros and cons, for basic functionality, but also the burden of keeping everything safe and up to date (while making sure it's still working), and the constant threat of having to switch to another package/crate if the one you have decided to use is abandoned.

dhosek 5y ago
The batteries included aspect of PHP is very 1990s. It's the thing I always disliked the most about PHP in that so much of the functionality required PHP to be built with all kinds of stuff compiled in and in shared hosting environments you would be at the mercy of however the admins built their PHP (not to mention having to deal with the overhead of having loads of code that you might not want in your system). Maybe it's gotten better since I was writing PHP code 14 years ago, but ugh.
stonemetal12 5y ago
Talking about centuries in programming is pretty silly. A large number of popular languages (Java, C#, Python, PHP) of a certain age went down the batteries included route. All of them have "dead batteries" in their standard libraries that can't be removed because of backwards compatibility. At this point more of Java's standard library shouldn't be used than should. Java literally has multiple UI implementations in the standard lib and none of them are the recommended method of UI development in Java. As far as I am concerned the only thing worse than having to use a package manager to make choices, is having to use the package manager to make choices to replace the dead ends codified in the standard library.
rictic 5y ago
<non-judgmental> PHP and Python were both released in the 90s

by rob74 5y ago

dhosek 5y ago

The batteries included aspect of PHP is very 1990s. It's the thing I always disliked the most about PHP in that so much of the functionality required PHP to be built with all kinds of stuff compiled in and in shared hosting environments you would be at the mercy of however the admins built their PHP (not to mention having to deal with the overhead of having loads of code that you might not want in your system). Maybe it's gotten better since I was writing PHP code 14 years ago, but ugh.

stonemetal12 5y ago

Talking about centuries in programming is pretty silly. A large number of popular languages (Java, C#, Python, PHP) of a certain age went down the batteries included route. All of them have "dead batteries" in their standard libraries that can't be removed because of backwards compatibility. At this point more of Java's standard library shouldn't be used than should. Java literally has multiple UI implementations in the standard lib and none of them are the recommended method of UI development in Java. As far as I am concerned the only thing worse than having to use a package manager to make choices, is having to use the package manager to make choices to replace the dead ends codified in the standard library.

rictic 5y ago

<non-judgmental> PHP and Python were both released in the 90s