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I don't think anyone is claiming that Rust is as simple as Python. Nor is Rust really targeting Python users. Java isn't as simple as Python either, but nobody

I don't think anyone is claiming that Rust is as simple as Python. Nor is Rust really targeting Python users. Java isn't as simple as Python either, but nobody thinks that makes Java unsuccessful. > Being in the position of "I need to learn a first systems language, should I pick C++ or Rust" is not very common, IMO. What makes you think that. Everyone who learns systems programming is in this position at some point. Perhaps not if they learn at university and the language is chosen for them, but that just pushes the choice onto the university itself. And universities are increasingly offering Rust courses. Of course, plenty of programmers aren't systems programmers and never will be. But that doesn't negate the need for systems programming languages, as demonstrated by the continued use of C and C++. If you do need a systems languages then Rust can make a good case for being the simplest. And could well become the de facto standard over the next few years.

FpUser 5y ago
>"But that doesn't negate the need for systems programming languages, as demonstrated by the continued use of C and C++" C++ uses far exceed systems programming.
helen___keller 5y ago
That’s all reasonable, I just feel like there’s a bit of a critical mass needed to really enter the mainstream as a “de facto standard” and I don’t know if the activation energy on Rust is too high to reach that critical mass Rust to me is starting to feel like how Haskell was a decade ago, where it seemed like everybody was talking about it but serious adoption was always just on the horizon. But maybe my expectations are just too high. It seemed quite exciting at first to see everything being rewritten in Rust but I guess that’s not how the software world really works. Old projects are entrenched because they take many years of dev time to mature
- nicoburns 5y ago
  > Rust to me is starting to feel like how Haskell was a decade ago, where it seemed like everybody was talking about it but serious adoption was always just on the horizon. I think you might just not be aware of how widely adopted Rust already is. Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Dropbox, Cloudflare to name just a few companies already have important projects in Rust. Curl is adding a Rust backend. The Linux Kernel hasn't committed yet, but groundwork has begun and it's looking like it's going to happen. Serious adoption has already happened. You're right that we won't see mass rewrites (although there have been some). That's just too big a project. But new projects are increasingly choosing Rust. It'll be a decade before Rust is the de facto standard if it happens. But personally I consider that quite likely.

FpUser 5y ago

>"But that doesn't negate the need for systems programming languages, as demonstrated by the continued use of C and C++" C++ uses far exceed systems programming.

helen___keller 5y ago

That’s all reasonable, I just feel like there’s a bit of a critical mass needed to really enter the mainstream as a “de facto standard” and I don’t know if the activation energy on Rust is too high to reach that critical mass Rust to me is starting to feel like how Haskell was a decade ago, where it seemed like everybody was talking about it but serious adoption was always just on the horizon. But maybe my expectations are just too high. It seemed quite exciting at first to see everything being rewritten in Rust but I guess that’s not how the software world really works. Old projects are entrenched because they take many years of dev time to mature

nicoburns 5y ago
> Rust to me is starting to feel like how Haskell was a decade ago, where it seemed like everybody was talking about it but serious adoption was always just on the horizon. I think you might just not be aware of how widely adopted Rust already is. Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Dropbox, Cloudflare to name just a few companies already have important projects in Rust. Curl is adding a Rust backend. The Linux Kernel hasn't committed yet, but groundwork has begun and it's looking like it's going to happen. Serious adoption has already happened. You're right that we won't see mass rewrites (although there have been some). That's just too big a project. But new projects are increasingly choosing Rust. It'll be a decade before Rust is the de facto standard if it happens. But personally I consider that quite likely.