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So its okay for people to leak addresses of politicians and call on other to kill them? They match your interests and they can organize. Oh wait I know you you

• halfdan 5y ago
  Whataboutism isn't helping. Obviously the answer to your question is no, but you could do the same with snailmail.
  • lampe3 5y ago
    Not that easy, not that cheap, not that open and not on that scale. Which are all important points. And again Telegram is breaking german/eu law and they are ignoring it even if they get a letter.
• iqanq 5y ago
  That argument is not honest. There already are laws against doxing and threats. We don't need to censor a whole platform because of that. Especially if it's done just so we can conveniently muzzle groups that just want to protest against masks, vaccines, or lockdowns.
  • lima 5y ago
    But that's the point - Telegram refuses to honor these laws. There are court rulings demanding Telegram to remove content, which Telegram ignores, hence the threats of banning the entire platform.
    • polski-g 5y ago
      Does telegram have employees in Germany? Why would the German government have control over any corporation on the planet?
      • BurningPenguin 5y ago
        Usually when you offer services in other countries, you have to obey their laws as well.
        • lobocinza 5y ago
          I don't see Facebook receiving the same treatment.
          • lima 5y ago
            Facebook complies with most foreign government law enforcement requests.
            • lobocinza 5y ago
              It probably do that and also pay its fines exemplary but at the end of the day it is a monopolistic network, a privacy abuser, a compulsive liar, a opinion manipulator and a big threat to democracy and society. To the government exerting control over it's citizens is far more important than protecting it's citizens rights and well-being. Facebook knows that and just play the game and at the end of the day Zuckerberg can do whatever he want if he saves politicians faces.
  • lampe3 5y ago
    Okay you have clearly no clue what you are talking about. Its not about "querdenker" putting there bullshit on and promoting there products. It's about the far right and people are getting more aggressive every day and writing death threats and leaking addresses and a lot of nasty shit. It's not about selling your homeopathic sugar pills. It's not about stupid people spreading fake news. It's about people calling other people to kill other people. If you dont recognize this then your a
    • ehvatum 5y ago
      All that Russian natural gas has clearly resulted in brain damage to the German left. In order to institute fascism, Hitler needed a crumbling economy, not an encrypted messenger!!!
    • kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
      And you know that because? Have you seen those things yourself? Will they also shut down email, I'm sure a lot of death threats are sent via that? Even if a few crazy people are into such things, it doesn't mean they have a huge impact. You can use Telegram just fine without ever seeing anything of it.
• Jimmc414 5y ago
  How will banning Telegram limit these harmful activities? Won't bad actors just switch to a different communication channel?
  • lampe3 5y ago
    It is about Telegram ignoring German Law and not answering any letters which by EU Law they have to do.
    • Brian_K_White 5y ago
      What law? And why isn't it just as much about the validity of such law?
    • LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
      Pulling a 'Nuland' here: Fuck their laws!
• EGreg 5y ago
  Perhaps the problem is in CENTRALIZED (or federated) addressing systems like the postal mail or DNS? Think about it … you wouldn’t get SPAM emails and calls or DDOS atacks if you only gave out capabilities to contact you to your existing contacts, and gave close contacts the ability to refer people to you, and if one friend abused their capability of handing out such invites, then you invalidate all their future invites. Same with the mail. Why should people easily know your address? Oh yeah… because it is published on some LARGE CENTRALIZED SITE UNENCRYPTED. Okay, so if unencrypted information about hard-to-change things such as your physical address gets out, then yes it is game over since geographic coordinates are static and moving is expensive. But online, this is not the case. The neywork can remap things periodically. Or you can just rejoin at a different address / number and update all your contacts (except the traitors lol). Look, the country’s post office could even have such an addressing scheme that shifts the internal addresses and maps to physical addresses only on a need to know basis for physical mail delivery. And again… who delivers your mail? A CENTRALIZED mail service? If you had couriers employed by many private companies, you’d just give them info on a need to know basis yourself, and they woild have a hard time combining it into one giant database. You see, most of the time some DDOS attack happens on a person or website it is because somewhere, some giant centralized site published your address on some centralized routing scheme. And taking it further … most wars and large scale violence happens because people joined forces to attack some other group of people. Ultimately that is what we have to solve, to make it exponentially harder to organize large groups for “unapproved” uses (there can be a whitelist of approved uses such as 1. agreeing on industrial standards, and 2. saving the world from a threat, whether a virus, an asteroid, rising seas or whatever). If you’re trying to join forces for anything else, you’re probably doing it at the expense of others and they will join forces too (eg cartels of doctors vs single payer health insurance).
  • MagnumOpus 5y ago
    People need to join forces to battle corrupt tax policy or corrupt laws that benefit one politician or businessman at the expense of a whole county's or even country's worth of taxpayers. People need to join forces to organise labour unions to have any equal negotiating power against their employer. People not being allowed to organise is the wet dream of corrupt autocratic politicians and business owners around the world (which is also why China or Russia have such tight controls and surveillance over their respective messaging app ecosystems).
• bostik 5y ago
  > So its okay for people to leak addresses of politicians and call on other to kill them? To leak their addresses? Yes. To call on killing them? No. Knowing where your elected (and/or unelected) officials live is very useful for civic purposes. It helps to identify various forms of corruption. Case in point: when I lived in Finland, our local municipality had 6 snowploughs. Only five of them were ever really in used for clearing out roads. During the long winters, the last one was essentially parked, with a person inside, next to a particular neighbourhood. It only cleared out the roads in that neighbourhood, and the roads directly connecting to it. That neighbourhood housed the chair and two other members of the town council. Being able to associate uneven allocation of public funds and the home addresses of those deciding how the allocation is done is useful, and I claim, even necessary.
  • maxwell86 5y ago
    > To leak their addresses? Yes. Privacy is a human right, leaking someone address is not ok, and doing so is illegal in Germany because of privacy rights. Ironically, this is also why it would be illegal in Germany for the government to "close" Telegram. However, there are many other laws that must be obeyed, and Telegram doesn't obey most of them in Germany, so it can be closed due to those issues.
    • bostik 5y ago
      While I agree that privacy is a human right, I only grant that right to individuals. The moment you enter politics, you SHOULD lose your privacy. When you enter politics, you are either doing that to defraud people, or planning to do so at the first opportunity.
• tut-urut-utut 5y ago
  Is all organization you can think about organizing to kill someone? People have the right to organize themselves, regardless of their political views, whether it is a telegram group about organizing a school festival, or demonstration about a topic you agree or not agree about. You can also ask to ban phones because people can use them to organize a murder. Or ban a postal service, since postal mail can also be used for bad purpose.