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The Amish can evaluate the effects of new technology on their communities by having the rest of the world act as a guinea pig. I think society as a whole could

The Amish can evaluate the effects of new technology on their communities by having the rest of the world act as a guinea pig. I think society as a whole could benefit from thinking about the effects of new technology on communities before adopting it, but reasoning about that from first principles seems very hard and putting the genie back into the bottle after a technology has been widely deployed is essentially impossible.

mod 5y ago
And in another way, the Amish are the guinea pig of their lifestyle. Maybe it will play out that strong, small, local communities have a huge long-term advantage in some important metric. I think it's very good that we have so many diverse cultures and lifestyles. There are many routes to happiness.
- Enginerrrd 5y ago
  They do have much better healthcare outcomes.
- ridewinter 5y ago
  Agreed, perhaps there's a lot we can learn from their experiment. For example, by not using artificial lighting do they have a habit of "two sleeps" like our ancestors did? https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220107-the-lost-medieval-habit-of-biphasic-sleep https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220107-the-lost-medieva...
mcdonje 5y ago
A society's best shot of protecting itself from the potential negative effects of unknown future technologies is ensuring that everyone's basic needs are met. Desperate people do desperate things.
- adrianN 5y ago
  How would meeting everyone's basic needs help for example against disinformation campaigns on social media destabilizing democracies?
  - bronzeage 5y ago
  - hiptobecubic 5y ago
    You're confusing "the best thing you can do" with "the only thing you need to do."
  - cabalamat 5y ago
    If everyone's basic needs are met, they won't be so discontented and thus easily be swayed by destabilising propaganda.
ballenf 5y ago
I don't think the article supports that position. Every new tech was evaluated by them based on the experience of people within their community who were approved early adopters. I didn't see any argument of "look what that tech is doing to the world" as factoring into a decision. Maybe I misread your point, but it seems like you're saying they're free loading off of the rest of society in some fundamentally greater way than other groups. I just don't see that.
ebiester 5y ago
To be fair, the rest of the world should be using Silicon Valley the same way. Were I a medium sized city, I would have a group of people looking at things like scooters and private busses that start in the bay area and start thinking about legislation to how to harness the benefits without the chaos.
Mystlix 5y ago
But this is a very hypochritical way of living in my opinion. Let's take YouTube as an example: I am not addicted to YouTube; I use it sparingly, without an account, with an extension that blocks related videos and by flushing the cookies each time. I consider it of great value to me because when I need to search for a tutorial or a piece of information I'm almost sure to find a video that will meet my demand. The problem here lies with the fact that the only reason why there are so many videos in the first place is because the majority of the userbase is indeed addicted to the service, so people are highly incentivized to make videos on the platform sharing their knowledge in order to capture a money earning audience. And even if you tell me that the vast majority of content is made without money taken into consideration you still have to admit that the service wouldn't be free if there wasn't that mass of money earning youtubers making the content free for everyone else. Since I use YouTube in such an Amishly way, I believe I'm not earning people much money so I don't feel that bad perpetuating the cycle, but I still have to admit to myself that if more and more people acted like me YouTube and many other platforms wouldn't exist and my life would be a bit worse as a result. I hope the Amish truly realize how lucky they are that they can exploit the rest of society when it suits their needs (e.g. they have no problem going to the hospital) and check out for the rest of the day unbothered while everyone else slaves away to mainting the system
- kk6mrp 5y ago
  You act as if the Amish produce nothing useful for society. While I see your point, I think making an effort to live more traditionally is a long way off from exploiting society.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  Most of us aren't working maintaining the system. Developers most of all - we're mostly either working on line of business applications or startups, neither of which, by and large, are structural elements of society. I don't know for sure what percentage of working people are doing the holding-up of modern society, but my estimate is about 20%.

mod 5y ago

And in another way, the Amish are the guinea pig of their lifestyle. Maybe it will play out that strong, small, local communities have a huge long-term advantage in some important metric. I think it's very good that we have so many diverse cultures and lifestyles. There are many routes to happiness.

Enginerrrd 5y ago
They do have much better healthcare outcomes.
ridewinter 5y ago
Agreed, perhaps there's a lot we can learn from their experiment. For example, by not using artificial lighting do they have a habit of "two sleeps" like our ancestors did? https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220107-the-lost-medieval-habit-of-biphasic-sleep https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220107-the-lost-medieva...

mcdonje 5y ago

A society's best shot of protecting itself from the potential negative effects of unknown future technologies is ensuring that everyone's basic needs are met. Desperate people do desperate things.

adrianN 5y ago
How would meeting everyone's basic needs help for example against disinformation campaigns on social media destabilizing democracies?
- bronzeage 5y ago
- hiptobecubic 5y ago
  You're confusing "the best thing you can do" with "the only thing you need to do."
- cabalamat 5y ago
  If everyone's basic needs are met, they won't be so discontented and thus easily be swayed by destabilising propaganda.

ballenf 5y ago

I don't think the article supports that position. Every new tech was evaluated by them based on the experience of people within their community who were approved early adopters. I didn't see any argument of "look what that tech is doing to the world" as factoring into a decision. Maybe I misread your point, but it seems like you're saying they're free loading off of the rest of society in some fundamentally greater way than other groups. I just don't see that.

ebiester 5y ago

To be fair, the rest of the world should be using Silicon Valley the same way. Were I a medium sized city, I would have a group of people looking at things like scooters and private busses that start in the bay area and start thinking about legislation to how to harness the benefits without the chaos.

Mystlix 5y ago

But this is a very hypochritical way of living in my opinion. Let's take YouTube as an example: I am not addicted to YouTube; I use it sparingly, without an account, with an extension that blocks related videos and by flushing the cookies each time. I consider it of great value to me because when I need to search for a tutorial or a piece of information I'm almost sure to find a video that will meet my demand. The problem here lies with the fact that the only reason why there are so many videos in the first place is because the majority of the userbase is indeed addicted to the service, so people are highly incentivized to make videos on the platform sharing their knowledge in order to capture a money earning audience. And even if you tell me that the vast majority of content is made without money taken into consideration you still have to admit that the service wouldn't be free if there wasn't that mass of money earning youtubers making the content free for everyone else. Since I use YouTube in such an Amishly way, I believe I'm not earning people much money so I don't feel that bad perpetuating the cycle, but I still have to admit to myself that if more and more people acted like me YouTube and many other platforms wouldn't exist and my life would be a bit worse as a result. I hope the Amish truly realize how lucky they are that they can exploit the rest of society when it suits their needs (e.g. they have no problem going to the hospital) and check out for the rest of the day unbothered while everyone else slaves away to mainting the system

kk6mrp 5y ago
You act as if the Amish produce nothing useful for society. While I see your point, I think making an effort to live more traditionally is a long way off from exploiting society.
beaconstudios 5y ago
Most of us aren't working maintaining the system. Developers most of all - we're mostly either working on line of business applications or startups, neither of which, by and large, are structural elements of society. I don't know for sure what percentage of working people are doing the holding-up of modern society, but my estimate is about 20%.