10 ms·

Because it's a swedish company? The location of the servers is kinda irrelevant in that regard. They'd have to provide government access if there is a lawsuit t

by y4mi 5y ago

Because it's a swedish company? The location of the servers is kinda irrelevant in that regard. They'd have to provide government access if there is a lawsuit that demands it. If there isn't one than your critique is entirely pointless

codethief 5y ago
> Because it's a swedish company? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. If online privacy is as important to them as they say, they could have easily registered their company (or a subsidiary) in a different EU member state. > They'd have to provide government access if there is a lawsuit that demands it. IANAL but I am not entirely sure this is true in the EU. Either way, my question was "Why are the servers located in Sweden?" Whether or not this due to the company owning the servers being in Sweden is irrelevant.
- akerl_ 5y ago
  I think you’re overthinking this. The people who run the company are based in Sweden. So they registered the company in Sweden, because that’s where they are. Then they hosted the servers in Sweden, because that’s where they are and where the company is registered. Registering the company somewhere else wouldn’t do them any good when they’re living in Sweden, because the legal system isn’t fooled by sleight of hand like that. Likewise, hosting the servers elsewhere from where they’re based. Both would expand the number of entities with the ability to compel them to disclose data, because as long as the company owners live in Sweden, Sweden has that ability. Unless you’re asking why they didn’t move to another country to start their company, which is surely a larger ask than the “easily” you suggest.
  - Chris2048 5y ago
    You are allowed to start companies in other countries, and thereby avoid local laws, without moving i.e. changing you country of residence. If you believe any different, please say why so. Just "wouldn’t do them any good" is pretty meaningless.
    - akerl_ 5y ago
      I assumed it was pretty clear why it wouldn’t do them any good: All of their executives and their staff are in Sweden. It doesn’t matter if the company is registered on Mars, the Swedish government can come knock on their doors, because Swedish laws apply to people in Sweden. The most mundane way to demonstrate this is to imagine they don’t register a company at all. If a bunch of Swedish people get together and start doing business w/o registering a company, it’s clear that Swedish law applies to them. Why would filing some paperwork with a foreign entity grant them immunity from the laws in the country they live and work from?
      - Chris2048 5y ago
        A server in Sweden cannot easily be raided by the Swedish, is the first reason. The second reason is "Swedish laws apply to people in Sweden" seem to make assumptions about what the government can force people to do, or specifically, punish people for not doing. In many cases, authorities just threaten/raid the data-centers so never have to bother take that route. Lastly, I'm not sure this is true: "Swedish laws apply to people in Sweden" - I'm not sure this applies to Swedes working for foreign corps, there are a whole load of laws that apply to local corps only. In fact, that are laws that apply to Swedish corps even when their staff reside abroad - unless "government can come knock on their doors" is a reference to physical coercion.
        akerl_ 5y ago
        This isn’t really responsive to what I’m saying or what you asked me. I didn’t make any assumptions about what Swedish law can or cannot do. Swedish laws apply to people in Sweden. If Swedish law says that you can’t use Helvetica font on your website, and the punishment is 10 years of hand-tracing a better font on stone tablets, then they’re able to apply that law to a Sweden-based web developer, regardless of whether or not he works for a company that’s registered in Spain. Likewise, yes, the Swedish government surely has many laws with carve outs for different use cases. Taxes are a great example here: there are laws that apply only to activities of foreign corporations, and laws that apply only to local corporations. But the Swedish government gets to make those laws and determine which apply to whom. Likewise, you are correct that Sweden can make laws that apply to Swedish corporations even when their staff reside abroad. This is because by registering in Sweden, the business has given the Swedish government a measure of control over their activities.
  - rosndo 5y ago
    > Registering the company somewhere else wouldn’t do them any good when they’re living in Sweden, because the legal system isn’t fooled by sleight of hand like that This isn’t true at all, at least as long as we assume that you’re dealing with the courts and not some secret police.
- Hnrobert42 5y ago
  Really? How easy is it to create a company in another EU country. In the US, it is mostly painless to create a company in another state. Fill out some forms online and pay a few hundred. If you don’t have a presence there, you have to pay for a registered agent in the state. That’s about $100/yr. You may also need a mailing address, but you can get a post office box that will accept and scan your mail for another hundred bucks a year. Star and local taxes. What about the EU?
  - pph 5y ago
    In the EU you will find very different laws and tax systems depending on the country. Quite large differences in regards to culture as well. One example: If you're a cross-border worker you'll likely have to file multiple tax decelerations (one for each country), which can be quite complicated if you don't speak the local language (and even if you do).
    - codethief 5y ago
      > If you're a cross-border worker you'll likely have to file multiple tax decelerations (one for each country) Yes, if you have sources of income in multiple countries, you might have to. But if you're (only) working on the other side of the border and this is your only source of income, agreements on double taxation and tax harmonization between the EU member states should actually prevent that. Heck, I even worked in the US once, declared my taxes there and didn't have to do my taxes back home in the EU anymore.
  - codethief 5y ago
    To my knowledge here in Germany registering a company is pretty much the same whether you're from Germany or from a different EU country. You don't need to live in Germany or anything. Of course you still need to know your way around local taxes, legal obligations (of the shareholder, of the company) etc. etc. but that's the case anywhere in the world.

by y4mi 5y ago

codethief 5y ago

> Because it's a swedish company? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. If online privacy is as important to them as they say, they could have easily registered their company (or a subsidiary) in a different EU member state. > They'd have to provide government access if there is a lawsuit that demands it. IANAL but I am not entirely sure this is true in the EU. Either way, my question was "Why are the servers located in Sweden?" Whether or not this due to the company owning the servers being in Sweden is irrelevant.

akerl_ 5y ago
I think you’re overthinking this. The people who run the company are based in Sweden. So they registered the company in Sweden, because that’s where they are. Then they hosted the servers in Sweden, because that’s where they are and where the company is registered. Registering the company somewhere else wouldn’t do them any good when they’re living in Sweden, because the legal system isn’t fooled by sleight of hand like that. Likewise, hosting the servers elsewhere from where they’re based. Both would expand the number of entities with the ability to compel them to disclose data, because as long as the company owners live in Sweden, Sweden has that ability. Unless you’re asking why they didn’t move to another country to start their company, which is surely a larger ask than the “easily” you suggest.
- Chris2048 5y ago
  You are allowed to start companies in other countries, and thereby avoid local laws, without moving i.e. changing you country of residence. If you believe any different, please say why so. Just "wouldn’t do them any good" is pretty meaningless.
  - akerl_ 5y ago
    I assumed it was pretty clear why it wouldn’t do them any good: All of their executives and their staff are in Sweden. It doesn’t matter if the company is registered on Mars, the Swedish government can come knock on their doors, because Swedish laws apply to people in Sweden. The most mundane way to demonstrate this is to imagine they don’t register a company at all. If a bunch of Swedish people get together and start doing business w/o registering a company, it’s clear that Swedish law applies to them. Why would filing some paperwork with a foreign entity grant them immunity from the laws in the country they live and work from?
    - Chris2048 5y ago
      A server in Sweden cannot easily be raided by the Swedish, is the first reason. The second reason is "Swedish laws apply to people in Sweden" seem to make assumptions about what the government can force people to do, or specifically, punish people for not doing. In many cases, authorities just threaten/raid the data-centers so never have to bother take that route. Lastly, I'm not sure this is true: "Swedish laws apply to people in Sweden" - I'm not sure this applies to Swedes working for foreign corps, there are a whole load of laws that apply to local corps only. In fact, that are laws that apply to Swedish corps even when their staff reside abroad - unless "government can come knock on their doors" is a reference to physical coercion.
      - akerl_ 5y ago
        This isn’t really responsive to what I’m saying or what you asked me. I didn’t make any assumptions about what Swedish law can or cannot do. Swedish laws apply to people in Sweden. If Swedish law says that you can’t use Helvetica font on your website, and the punishment is 10 years of hand-tracing a better font on stone tablets, then they’re able to apply that law to a Sweden-based web developer, regardless of whether or not he works for a company that’s registered in Spain. Likewise, yes, the Swedish government surely has many laws with carve outs for different use cases. Taxes are a great example here: there are laws that apply only to activities of foreign corporations, and laws that apply only to local corporations. But the Swedish government gets to make those laws and determine which apply to whom. Likewise, you are correct that Sweden can make laws that apply to Swedish corporations even when their staff reside abroad. This is because by registering in Sweden, the business has given the Swedish government a measure of control over their activities.
- rosndo 5y ago
  > Registering the company somewhere else wouldn’t do them any good when they’re living in Sweden, because the legal system isn’t fooled by sleight of hand like that This isn’t true at all, at least as long as we assume that you’re dealing with the courts and not some secret police.
Hnrobert42 5y ago
Really? How easy is it to create a company in another EU country. In the US, it is mostly painless to create a company in another state. Fill out some forms online and pay a few hundred. If you don’t have a presence there, you have to pay for a registered agent in the state. That’s about $100/yr. You may also need a mailing address, but you can get a post office box that will accept and scan your mail for another hundred bucks a year. Star and local taxes. What about the EU?
- pph 5y ago
  In the EU you will find very different laws and tax systems depending on the country. Quite large differences in regards to culture as well. One example: If you're a cross-border worker you'll likely have to file multiple tax decelerations (one for each country), which can be quite complicated if you don't speak the local language (and even if you do).
  - codethief 5y ago
    > If you're a cross-border worker you'll likely have to file multiple tax decelerations (one for each country) Yes, if you have sources of income in multiple countries, you might have to. But if you're (only) working on the other side of the border and this is your only source of income, agreements on double taxation and tax harmonization between the EU member states should actually prevent that. Heck, I even worked in the US once, declared my taxes there and didn't have to do my taxes back home in the EU anymore.
- codethief 5y ago
  To my knowledge here in Germany registering a company is pretty much the same whether you're from Germany or from a different EU country. You don't need to live in Germany or anything. Of course you still need to know your way around local taxes, legal obligations (of the shareholder, of the company) etc. etc. but that's the case anywhere in the world.