3 ms·

Evidence does not need to be able to convince on its own, you seem to be picking an arbitrarily high bar that would dismiss all evidence until such time as it w

Evidence does not need to be able to convince on its own, you seem to be picking an arbitrarily high bar that would dismiss all evidence until such time as it would confirm a leak. That's not even the bar used in law to begin a prosecution, when they know that reasonable doubt will need to be overcome. Regardless, this is evidence of a conspiracy of silence, not evidence that there was a lab leak. The two should not be mixed up nor conflated.

YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago
There is no evidence of anything remotely like "a conspiracy of silence". The Telegraph article quotes parts of emails between people discussing the possibility of a lab leak and the possible outcomes of a public discussion of the possibility of a lab leak. At no point is anyone saying "we must keep this under wrap" or something along those lines. You have to squint very hard to find an insinuation that the discussion of a lab origin has to be silenced. As indeed it was not. The few people who thought a lab leak was likely have been very public about their opinion and nobody has attempted to stop them. We've all heard the one about the furin cleavage cite (even if about 0.005% of those who repeat it know what the hell a furin cleavage cite is). Hence why the internet bursts at the seams with discussions about lab leaks and conspiracies to cover them up.
- mikeyouse 5y ago
  It’s amusing too because many highly trained people were perplexed about the FCS — until last year when we discovered that those mutations actually do happen spontaneously in nature, in Coronaviruses and are stable: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1873506120304165 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187350612... People forget that we're looking at the "plane that landed" from the famous WWII picture. A bunch of low probability things had to happen for SarsCOV2 to emerge naturally -- but given a long enough timeline and trillions of viral replications, sometimes it will.
- brigandish 5y ago
  > At no point is anyone saying "we must keep this under wrap" or something along those lines. Francis Collins, (at the time) director of the National Institutes of Health wrote: > Wondering if there is something NIH can do to help put down this very destructive conspiracy put down is strange language, but Collins has used similar in an email that also ended up in Dr Fauci's inbox: > The proposal from the three fringe epidemiologists who met with the Secretary seems to be getting a lot of attention > There needs to be a quick and devastating published take down of its premises take down, eh? And in the Washington Post[1]: > This is a fringe component of epidemiology. This is not mainstream science. It's dangerous. The fringe epidemiologists not doing mainstream science but dangerous things are: Martin Kulldorff, PhD, a biostatistician, epidemiologist and professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School[2][3] Jay Bhattacharya, professor of medicine at Stanford University and a research associate at the National Bureau of Economic Research. He directs Stanford's Center for Demography and Economics of Health and Aging[4][5] Sunetra Gupta, infectious disease epidemiologist and a professor of theoretical epidemiology at the Department of Zoology, University of Oxford[6][7] The language doesn't match the claims, his or yours. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/covid-herd-immunity/2020/10/10/3910251c-0a60-11eb-859b-f9c27abe638d_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/covid-herd-immunity/20... [2] https://www.dfhcc.harvard.edu/insider/member-detail/member/martin-kulldorff-phd/ https://www.dfhcc.harvard.edu/insider/member-detail/member/m... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Kulldorff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Kulldorff [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Bhattacharya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Bhattacharya [5] https://profiles.stanford.edu/jay-bhattacharya https://profiles.stanford.edu/jay-bhattacharya [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunetra_Gupta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunetra_Gupta [7] https://www.zoo.ox.ac.uk/people/professor-sunetra-gupta https://www.zoo.ox.ac.uk/people/professor-sunetra-gupta

YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago

There is no evidence of anything remotely like "a conspiracy of silence". The Telegraph article quotes parts of emails between people discussing the possibility of a lab leak and the possible outcomes of a public discussion of the possibility of a lab leak. At no point is anyone saying "we must keep this under wrap" or something along those lines. You have to squint very hard to find an insinuation that the discussion of a lab origin has to be silenced. As indeed it was not. The few people who thought a lab leak was likely have been very public about their opinion and nobody has attempted to stop them. We've all heard the one about the furin cleavage cite (even if about 0.005% of those who repeat it know what the hell a furin cleavage cite is). Hence why the internet bursts at the seams with discussions about lab leaks and conspiracies to cover them up.

mikeyouse 5y ago
It’s amusing too because many highly trained people were perplexed about the FCS — until last year when we discovered that those mutations actually do happen spontaneously in nature, in Coronaviruses and are stable: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1873506120304165 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187350612... People forget that we're looking at the "plane that landed" from the famous WWII picture. A bunch of low probability things had to happen for SarsCOV2 to emerge naturally -- but given a long enough timeline and trillions of viral replications, sometimes it will.
brigandish 5y ago
> At no point is anyone saying "we must keep this under wrap" or something along those lines. Francis Collins, (at the time) director of the National Institutes of Health wrote: > Wondering if there is something NIH can do to help put down this very destructive conspiracy put down is strange language, but Collins has used similar in an email that also ended up in Dr Fauci's inbox: > The proposal from the three fringe epidemiologists who met with the Secretary seems to be getting a lot of attention > There needs to be a quick and devastating published take down of its premises take down, eh? And in the Washington Post[1]: > This is a fringe component of epidemiology. This is not mainstream science. It's dangerous. The fringe epidemiologists not doing mainstream science but dangerous things are: Martin Kulldorff, PhD, a biostatistician, epidemiologist and professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School[2][3] Jay Bhattacharya, professor of medicine at Stanford University and a research associate at the National Bureau of Economic Research. He directs Stanford's Center for Demography and Economics of Health and Aging[4][5] Sunetra Gupta, infectious disease epidemiologist and a professor of theoretical epidemiology at the Department of Zoology, University of Oxford[6][7] The language doesn't match the claims, his or yours. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/covid-herd-immunity/2020/10/10/3910251c-0a60-11eb-859b-f9c27abe638d_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/covid-herd-immunity/20... [2] https://www.dfhcc.harvard.edu/insider/member-detail/member/martin-kulldorff-phd/ https://www.dfhcc.harvard.edu/insider/member-detail/member/m... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Kulldorff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Kulldorff [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Bhattacharya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Bhattacharya [5] https://profiles.stanford.edu/jay-bhattacharya https://profiles.stanford.edu/jay-bhattacharya [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunetra_Gupta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunetra_Gupta [7] https://www.zoo.ox.ac.uk/people/professor-sunetra-gupta https://www.zoo.ox.ac.uk/people/professor-sunetra-gupta