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This would be the case if I was born in the countryside around Paris in 1400 or almost anywhere in the world around the same time. As recently as 1840 still, F

by bambax 5y ago

This would be the case if I was born in the countryside around Paris in 1400 or almost anywhere in the world around the same time. As recently as 1840 still, France had a king (as did much of Europe), there were of course no cars, phones, etc., and over 60% of the French population could not sign their name. Again, everything you are talking about in your original response relates to the very recent past, and that wasn't my point. I would agree the world changed beyond recognition in the last 50 years (although I would disagree it had much effect on us as a species). But my original point was that the separation of history in "antiquity" and "our era" is arbitrary, and that we can relate to people from 4,500 years ago as well as our great great grand parents -- and perhaps more.

kragen 5y ago
I see! I think you're right that change has been very fast recently, very much faster than anything innate about us can change, and of course that post-Renaissance Europe was in many ways very similar to Classical Antiquity. That's why it was called the "Renaissance", after all. But there was a fairly sharp break between Late Antiquity and the Dark Ages, which I don't think is really arbitrary, except in the sense that it was only a local phenomenon and so only appears if your focus was Europe. It wasn't as big a change as the last century or two has been, but it was a big change. The progression of the Middle Ages was much more gradual, but it too eventually produced enormous changes, and certainly the Reformation and the consequent introduction of the Westphalian form of state were enormously consquential. My great-great-grandparents were probably born around 1860, mostly in the US. So not only had they heard of governments, they knew about democracy and literacy, though some of them probably weren't themselves literate. They traveled and shipped goods by railroad, which was of course made of metal smelted from stones. They bought and sold things with coins and even paper money (though not fiat money). Some of them probably drove cars, though I've only heard definite stories of their children, my great-grandparents, doing so. Some of them made phone calls. Glass was mass-produced in their lifetimes, though greenhouses were still only for the rich, and steel-framed skyscrapers were built. They knew many illnesses were caused by "germs". Hot-air balloons were a century before their births; some of them may have lived to see not only heavier-than-air flight but also the Great War. I don't know if any of them ever underwent anesthesia, but it became widespread for surgery in their lifetimes. So, I don't know that it's true that I can relate to Merer as well as to my great-great-grandparents. Merer didn't have iron, coinage, flight, germ theory, anesthesia, mass production, and so on. He probably didn't know the Earth moved or that the stars were suns. He might not have known the Earth was round. Even the Polynesians hadn't yet learned to navigate over open ocean. He didn't have wheeled vehicles; chariots would be introduced centuries later by the Hyksos.

by bambax 5y ago

kragen 5y ago

I see! I think you're right that change has been very fast recently, very much faster than anything innate about us can change, and of course that post-Renaissance Europe was in many ways very similar to Classical Antiquity. That's why it was called the "Renaissance", after all. But there was a fairly sharp break between Late Antiquity and the Dark Ages, which I don't think is really arbitrary, except in the sense that it was only a local phenomenon and so only appears if your focus was Europe. It wasn't as big a change as the last century or two has been, but it was a big change. The progression of the Middle Ages was much more gradual, but it too eventually produced enormous changes, and certainly the Reformation and the consequent introduction of the Westphalian form of state were enormously consquential. My great-great-grandparents were probably born around 1860, mostly in the US. So not only had they heard of governments, they knew about democracy and literacy, though some of them probably weren't themselves literate. They traveled and shipped goods by railroad, which was of course made of metal smelted from stones. They bought and sold things with coins and even paper money (though not fiat money). Some of them probably drove cars, though I've only heard definite stories of their children, my great-grandparents, doing so. Some of them made phone calls. Glass was mass-produced in their lifetimes, though greenhouses were still only for the rich, and steel-framed skyscrapers were built. They knew many illnesses were caused by "germs". Hot-air balloons were a century before their births; some of them may have lived to see not only heavier-than-air flight but also the Great War. I don't know if any of them ever underwent anesthesia, but it became widespread for surgery in their lifetimes. So, I don't know that it's true that I can relate to Merer as well as to my great-great-grandparents. Merer didn't have iron, coinage, flight, germ theory, anesthesia, mass production, and so on. He probably didn't know the Earth moved or that the stars were suns. He might not have known the Earth was round. Even the Polynesians hadn't yet learned to navigate over open ocean. He didn't have wheeled vehicles; chariots would be introduced centuries later by the Hyksos.