3 ms·

This is not a future I'd like to see. What bothers me even more, is that if the neighbors above me decide to join an "Apple Security Sensing Program" by togglin

This is not a future I'd like to see. What bothers me even more, is that if the neighbors above me decide to join an "Apple Security Sensing Program" by toggling it on, it may as well be sensing and logging my activity. Other than that, I do have a lot of ESP32s at my place sensing for activity via IR as well as by creating an FFT-"audio" log. No sound just FFT aggregated over one second, but all these devices store the data on my home server, not in some cloud.

Ginden 5y ago
> What bothers me even more, is that if the neighbors above me decide to join an "Apple Security Sensing Program" by toggling it on, it may as well be sensing and logging my activity. 60 Ghz is heavily blocked by walls, glass and doors, even more than 5Ghz, so that's very unlikely scenario.
- transpute 5y ago
  > that's very unlikely scenario. Wi-Fi sensing works with 2.4 Ghz and higher.
thebeastie 5y ago
Tell us more about the home sensors why ir? And what is the fft data for?
- lnsru 5y ago
  I feed fft data into machine learning system for signal classification. It’s a nice real time system with midrange Xilinx ZynQ SoC. Some Xilinx IP blocks with hand written classification engine. I guess author wants to classify sounds in his environment too.
  - qwertox 5y ago
    Correct, the ultimate goal is to perform automatic activity logging. For example my bathroom has two IR sensors (https://www.amazon.de/dp/B08LBDYPYD https://www.amazon.de/dp/B08LBDYPYD), one inside the shower, one outside of it. This lets me log the time and duration of when I take a shower or how often I shave. It also has an I2S MEMS microphone which collects the data for the FFT where the goal is to replace the IR in the shower with it since the water sound is enough information. Also temperature and humidity, where the latter also gives a good indication of when I showered and when I forgot to close the window some time after showering. My bedroom also has the same "setup", where the FFT shows me how big of a problem I have with snoring. Eventually I can add some logic on the server to slightly wake me up if I snore, but currently I'm just logging. The PIR serves as a measurement of how much I'm moving at night without requiring a camera for this. Though I have another ESP32 under my bed fixated at the slatted frame which contains an 9dof-IMU and logs any significant movement which may be related to quality of sleep. Also the magnetic field which is why I have a strong magnet attached to my bed tablet, so I know when it changed position. Even though the tablet knows that itself because it is logging its own accelerometer every minute. I live alone, so all of this is no problem. At this point I'm mostly only logging, and only using the shower and bed data to see when I used them, which I can then see in Grafana. I think the data will only gain value when watched over a long time frame.
    - minetest2048 5y ago
      I remember seeing a Hackaday post that uses FFT/spectogram to infer IoT things such as boiling kettle without cameras. Is this related?
      - qwertox 5y ago
        No, it's not related. I'm trying to get notified when my noodle water has started boiling, but even with an humidity sensor in the kitchen it's pretty hard to tell when it's about to boil, so that the heat can be lowered before it splashes around. And the FFT in the kitchen is somewhat broken so I can't use it, there may be a lot of noise in the mains or something like that. In any case I've planned to replace the setup in the kitchen months ago, but never moved on to doing it.
        javajosh 5y ago
        The evidence I use to determine when water is about to boil is my ears. I hear a staccato creaky sound that accelerates just before water boils, that is very distinct and easily picked up by microphone. (Curiously, I've never seriously asked what makes this sound, physically.) How do rice cookers do it?
hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
I remember when first contactless payment options appeared, many people started buying anti-RFID wallets and bags. I'm not sure if they're still a thing, but the people who need "radio-privacy" will definitely find a way.
- dafoex 5y ago
  I have a few wallets with alleged RFID blocking. For those its mainly to stop arse grabbing attacks where card info (or security badge info) could be cloned with a little badge reader held in someone's palm.
  - float4 5y ago
    Smart cards store secret keys and modifiable internal state on-device. Older smart cards, with for example a MIFARE chip from around the year 2000, can be cloned relatively easily because they have many vulnerabilities, but newer cards with for example an NXP SmartMX2 P60 are, to date, impossible to clone unless you have access to the card for a large amount of time. You'd also be surprised how powerful smart cards are these days. the aforementioned NXP chip has 586 KB ROM, 144 KB EEPROM and 11 KB RAM, crypto coprocessors for RSA/ECC/DES/AES, and a 32-bit CPU.

Ginden 5y ago

> What bothers me even more, is that if the neighbors above me decide to join an "Apple Security Sensing Program" by toggling it on, it may as well be sensing and logging my activity. 60 Ghz is heavily blocked by walls, glass and doors, even more than 5Ghz, so that's very unlikely scenario.

transpute 5y ago
> that's very unlikely scenario. Wi-Fi sensing works with 2.4 Ghz and higher.

thebeastie 5y ago

Tell us more about the home sensors why ir? And what is the fft data for?

lnsru 5y ago
I feed fft data into machine learning system for signal classification. It’s a nice real time system with midrange Xilinx ZynQ SoC. Some Xilinx IP blocks with hand written classification engine. I guess author wants to classify sounds in his environment too.
- qwertox 5y ago
  Correct, the ultimate goal is to perform automatic activity logging. For example my bathroom has two IR sensors (https://www.amazon.de/dp/B08LBDYPYD https://www.amazon.de/dp/B08LBDYPYD), one inside the shower, one outside of it. This lets me log the time and duration of when I take a shower or how often I shave. It also has an I2S MEMS microphone which collects the data for the FFT where the goal is to replace the IR in the shower with it since the water sound is enough information. Also temperature and humidity, where the latter also gives a good indication of when I showered and when I forgot to close the window some time after showering. My bedroom also has the same "setup", where the FFT shows me how big of a problem I have with snoring. Eventually I can add some logic on the server to slightly wake me up if I snore, but currently I'm just logging. The PIR serves as a measurement of how much I'm moving at night without requiring a camera for this. Though I have another ESP32 under my bed fixated at the slatted frame which contains an 9dof-IMU and logs any significant movement which may be related to quality of sleep. Also the magnetic field which is why I have a strong magnet attached to my bed tablet, so I know when it changed position. Even though the tablet knows that itself because it is logging its own accelerometer every minute. I live alone, so all of this is no problem. At this point I'm mostly only logging, and only using the shower and bed data to see when I used them, which I can then see in Grafana. I think the data will only gain value when watched over a long time frame.
  - minetest2048 5y ago
    I remember seeing a Hackaday post that uses FFT/spectogram to infer IoT things such as boiling kettle without cameras. Is this related?
    - qwertox 5y ago
      No, it's not related. I'm trying to get notified when my noodle water has started boiling, but even with an humidity sensor in the kitchen it's pretty hard to tell when it's about to boil, so that the heat can be lowered before it splashes around. And the FFT in the kitchen is somewhat broken so I can't use it, there may be a lot of noise in the mains or something like that. In any case I've planned to replace the setup in the kitchen months ago, but never moved on to doing it.
      - javajosh 5y ago
        The evidence I use to determine when water is about to boil is my ears. I hear a staccato creaky sound that accelerates just before water boils, that is very distinct and easily picked up by microphone. (Curiously, I've never seriously asked what makes this sound, physically.) How do rice cookers do it?

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago

I remember when first contactless payment options appeared, many people started buying anti-RFID wallets and bags. I'm not sure if they're still a thing, but the people who need "radio-privacy" will definitely find a way.

dafoex 5y ago
I have a few wallets with alleged RFID blocking. For those its mainly to stop arse grabbing attacks where card info (or security badge info) could be cloned with a little badge reader held in someone's palm.
- float4 5y ago
  Smart cards store secret keys and modifiable internal state on-device. Older smart cards, with for example a MIFARE chip from around the year 2000, can be cloned relatively easily because they have many vulnerabilities, but newer cards with for example an NXP SmartMX2 P60 are, to date, impossible to clone unless you have access to the card for a large amount of time. You'd also be surprised how powerful smart cards are these days. the aforementioned NXP chip has 586 KB ROM, 144 KB EEPROM and 11 KB RAM, crypto coprocessors for RSA/ECC/DES/AES, and a 32-bit CPU.