3 ms·

I was in the same research lab as the author, but from a different school (BU). When I found out that most of my peers were also doing their master's part time

I was in the same research lab as the author, but from a different school (BU). When I found out that most of my peers were also doing their master's part time while working, I wished I could do that. But as an international student, there are a lot of restrictions. I had to do it full time (3-4 classes per semester), and I could only work 20 hours part time on campus, usually as a TA and/or research assistant. I did 3 jobs to max that out since most jobs only required you to work 6-8 hours a week. I could only do one internship for my entire degree. My total cost for 2 years was $117,889. BU did not have scholarships or aid for international students, because saying you need aid is admitting that you lied on the visa application. Then I had to pay $7800 to work on my thesis over the summer, which I chose not to finish because I wanted to start working earlier. To make up for lack of work experience, I pretty much did open source contribs 40 hours a week while working on my thesis and TAing. There was a period of 10 weeks where I was putting in 80-100 hours between school and unpaid work. It was still worth it in the end. Similar experience coming from no CS undergrad. There were about 3 good classes that were very valuable, like Algorithms, Cloud Computing, and Embedded Systems. The rest was not that great, especially with remote. When I think about ROI compared to a bootcamp, it's a tough one. Really successful bootcamp grads are already self-selecting going into the bootcamp, same with the really smart students in my master's program. But going to a master's program seems to have a better ROI just based on quality of instruction/institution alone. 6 months after graduation and my pay bump has more than covered it. I was feeding the master's program cash cow, so I think of it as I'm helping fund my US and green card classmates' master's. Most of my peers had 50% or full ride scholarships.

felipemnoa 5y ago
>> $117,889 This is just an insane amount of money for a a masters degree. I had no idea it was that expensive. And why did it take you 2 years if it was only a masters? It is only supposed to be 30 credits. I guess spending a year working on just the thesis could explain that.
- jackdawed 5y ago
  Keep in mind this is for an international student paying out of state tuition with no aid. The 50-60k number is more reasonable for US citizens, <30k if you're coming in with a scholarship. 2 years is the average amount of time for a masters degree. It's typically like 2-3 semesters of classes, then thesis or project. As for credits, my masters segment was 36 credits, while my catch up undergrad segment was 28 credits.
908B64B197 5y ago
> My total cost for 2 years was $117,889. That's to be expected. These programs are "cash cows". And they send a pretty bad signal [0] [1]. > BU did not have scholarships or aid for international students, because saying you need aid is admitting that you lied on the visa application. That's also a red flag. Serious programs (that are research focused) are typically need blind when applying; if the lab wants a certain student, it will secure funding for him. > Similar experience coming from no CS undergrad. There were about 3 good classes that were very valuable, like Algorithms, Cloud Computing, and Embedded Systems. Interestingly, with these masters, the admission bar is often much lower than the undergrad at the same school, so these are watered down classes. [0] https://blog.alinelerner.com/how-different-is-a-b-s-in-computer-science-from-a-m-s-in-computer-science-when-it-comes-to-recruiting/ https://blog.alinelerner.com/how-different-is-a-b-s-in-compu... [1] https://ozwrites.com/masters/ https://ozwrites.com/masters/
- jackdawed 5y ago
  > That's to be expected. These programs are "cash cows". And they send a pretty bad signal [0] [1]. I read these two articles along with many others in the gap year I spent after undergrad, before deciding. I was pretty confident that I could have landed a SWE job without going to grad school with 6-12 months of serious study. But I could not do that while on visa. I was ineligible to be a SWE in the US without a degree related to CS. I think I talked to ~20 people who went to grad school, bootcamps, or were self taught. I asked them what they liked and disliked about their program/learning path. I came up with two main requirements: the ability to take rigorous undergrad-level courses with structure, and the ability to interact with peers beyond the same course or subject (for a broad view of the industry). I also could not take a post-bacc program because my visa would not be valid unless it was for the next level (no OPT unless MS or PhD). So that brings it down to do an MS, or get deported in 3 months to a country with less SWE opportunities. > That's also a red flag. Serious programs (that are research focused) are typically need blind when applying; if the lab wants a certain student, it will secure funding for him. This is less on the school program and more on the US government. As part of the visa application, you need to show your bank account with liquid assets that covers the one year of tuition plus living expenses. I had a relative act as my sponsor, and I supplemented the funds through part time work. Additionally, I was applying for a terminal masters, and most programs only secure funding for students on the PhD track. While I talked with some PIs and expressed interest in joining their labs, this was not factored into my application packet. During the program, I considered remaining in my research lab for a PhD but I decided against it due to the high opportunity cost of not entering industry. > Interestingly, with these masters, the admission bar is often much lower than the undergrad at the same school, so these are watered down classes. This is true. I also asked the graduate office what the admissions rate for my program was and they said they don't keep track but would estimate it to be between 50-70% depending on the year. The reason they gave was that the applicants were very self selecting. The majority of my cohort had over 3 years of work experience, albeit in a different field. Some had 20 years. Most of the peers I talked to knew exactly what they were getting out of the program and only applied to 1-2 schools, the other being Georgia Tech OMSCS or a post-bacc program. I specifically picked this program because I had to take undergrad courses at the school for 1-2 semesters. They were hard, and a lot of undergrads did drop. I ended up being a TA for two of these courses and saw first hand how some students were not cut out for university-level CS. At the end of the day I feel like my decision was worth the time and money investment. In about 10 months from now, my income after expenses would have more than paid for the 2 years I spent in grad school, and I feel more equipped to pursue a PhD at some later time. Hopefully when I have a green card.

felipemnoa 5y ago

>> $117,889 This is just an insane amount of money for a a masters degree. I had no idea it was that expensive. And why did it take you 2 years if it was only a masters? It is only supposed to be 30 credits. I guess spending a year working on just the thesis could explain that.

jackdawed 5y ago
Keep in mind this is for an international student paying out of state tuition with no aid. The 50-60k number is more reasonable for US citizens, <30k if you're coming in with a scholarship. 2 years is the average amount of time for a masters degree. It's typically like 2-3 semesters of classes, then thesis or project. As for credits, my masters segment was 36 credits, while my catch up undergrad segment was 28 credits.

908B64B197 5y ago

> My total cost for 2 years was $117,889. That's to be expected. These programs are "cash cows". And they send a pretty bad signal [0] [1]. > BU did not have scholarships or aid for international students, because saying you need aid is admitting that you lied on the visa application. That's also a red flag. Serious programs (that are research focused) are typically need blind when applying; if the lab wants a certain student, it will secure funding for him. > Similar experience coming from no CS undergrad. There were about 3 good classes that were very valuable, like Algorithms, Cloud Computing, and Embedded Systems. Interestingly, with these masters, the admission bar is often much lower than the undergrad at the same school, so these are watered down classes. [0] https://blog.alinelerner.com/how-different-is-a-b-s-in-computer-science-from-a-m-s-in-computer-science-when-it-comes-to-recruiting/ https://blog.alinelerner.com/how-different-is-a-b-s-in-compu... [1] https://ozwrites.com/masters/ https://ozwrites.com/masters/

jackdawed 5y ago
> That's to be expected. These programs are "cash cows". And they send a pretty bad signal [0] [1]. I read these two articles along with many others in the gap year I spent after undergrad, before deciding. I was pretty confident that I could have landed a SWE job without going to grad school with 6-12 months of serious study. But I could not do that while on visa. I was ineligible to be a SWE in the US without a degree related to CS. I think I talked to ~20 people who went to grad school, bootcamps, or were self taught. I asked them what they liked and disliked about their program/learning path. I came up with two main requirements: the ability to take rigorous undergrad-level courses with structure, and the ability to interact with peers beyond the same course or subject (for a broad view of the industry). I also could not take a post-bacc program because my visa would not be valid unless it was for the next level (no OPT unless MS or PhD). So that brings it down to do an MS, or get deported in 3 months to a country with less SWE opportunities. > That's also a red flag. Serious programs (that are research focused) are typically need blind when applying; if the lab wants a certain student, it will secure funding for him. This is less on the school program and more on the US government. As part of the visa application, you need to show your bank account with liquid assets that covers the one year of tuition plus living expenses. I had a relative act as my sponsor, and I supplemented the funds through part time work. Additionally, I was applying for a terminal masters, and most programs only secure funding for students on the PhD track. While I talked with some PIs and expressed interest in joining their labs, this was not factored into my application packet. During the program, I considered remaining in my research lab for a PhD but I decided against it due to the high opportunity cost of not entering industry. > Interestingly, with these masters, the admission bar is often much lower than the undergrad at the same school, so these are watered down classes. This is true. I also asked the graduate office what the admissions rate for my program was and they said they don't keep track but would estimate it to be between 50-70% depending on the year. The reason they gave was that the applicants were very self selecting. The majority of my cohort had over 3 years of work experience, albeit in a different field. Some had 20 years. Most of the peers I talked to knew exactly what they were getting out of the program and only applied to 1-2 schools, the other being Georgia Tech OMSCS or a post-bacc program. I specifically picked this program because I had to take undergrad courses at the school for 1-2 semesters. They were hard, and a lot of undergrads did drop. I ended up being a TA for two of these courses and saw first hand how some students were not cut out for university-level CS. At the end of the day I feel like my decision was worth the time and money investment. In about 10 months from now, my income after expenses would have more than paid for the 2 years I spent in grad school, and I feel more equipped to pursue a PhD at some later time. Hopefully when I have a green card.