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Such as? Assuming the best, the parent asked a bunch of questions (in an admittedly dismissive and argumentative way) to try and invite some kind of response t

Such as? Assuming the best, the parent asked a bunch of questions (in an admittedly dismissive and argumentative way) to try and invite some kind of response that explains what China gets out of it, and what the world does next if we could somehow prove China created the original virus. So … let’s assume China created it. Now what? What’s the next step and response if it was an accident? What’s the next step and response if it was intentional? Edit: I’m asking because I’m genuinely curious about what the next step would be. I mean, it’d satisfy my curiosity and interest in knowing the cause and origin. But then I want to figure out what the world response should be.

torstenvl 5y ago
If you honestly dispute that there are options in foreign affairs between "do absolutely nothing" and "full scale military invasion," then our worldviews are so far apart that I don't think fighting about it on the Internet will be a good use of time for either of us.
- bobwaycott 5y ago
  You seem to be grossly misinterpreting my comment. I’ve said nothing at all to suggest there are no options in foreign affairs between "do absolutely nothing" and "full scale military invasion”. Where are you even getting that message? I asked what you thought those options are since you seem to have some opinions. Or at least a few of them. Specifically. I don’t see how I said anything that indicates I’m trying to fight on the internet about our worldviews.
  - stale2002 5y ago
    > I’ve said nothing at all to suggest there are no options Great. So you agree that there are other options in between do nothing, and an invasion. Both you, and everyone else, agrees on that idea. So that means that you personally can think of some in between those two extremes.
xony 5y ago
awb 5y ago
There are all kinds of forms of cooperation between countries: economic, political, financial, scientific, legal, regulatory, transportation, trade, military, etc. One option instead of full scale invasion is to cut back or attach strings to some of those forms of cooperation. This happens all the time. In this specific scenario, it might look like: Spend $100M upgrading Wuhan lab security and we won’t indefinitely ban travel from Wuhan Province to the US. Or, more aggressively: Shut down the Wuhan lab or we will release tons of hacked data about corruption in the government. Not saying that these are smart options, but you get the idea of the spectrum of options between total absolution and total aggression.
- bobwaycott 5y ago
  > There are all kinds of forms of cooperation between countries: economic, political, financial, scientific, legal, regulatory, transportation, trade, military, etc. Oh, for sure. Those are certainly the broad categories of foreign policy and cooperative (and coercive) action. I appreciate the specific ideas. I really am just curious what others’ ideas are on specific actions that could be taken if there was suddenly definitive proof tomorrow of origins.
  - Moru 5y ago
    The world is so incredible dependent on China for just about everything from the simplest tools to cars, computers and medical equipment. My guess is that it would change nothing, we would still be letting them produce everything for us because it is so much cheaper, and keep letting them grow their economy at record speeds.
UncleEntity 5y ago
Back in the day, that inconvenient time we used to refer to as “history”, there were people called “robber barons”, massive child labor, unsafe working environments &etc. If (the collective) we just shrugged it off because we didn’t want to offend anyone do you think things would be any different today?
x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago
Few people are really answering the question, and I can only assume because everyone knows that the answer is "nothing". Western thought doesn't really work well when it's dealing with a non-Western entity that can defend itself. So while people are up in arms about the lab-leak hypothesis, they can't think past just being upset at China. We can't press China militarily without the Western way of life being threatened, we can't threaten them economically without the Western way of life being threatened and we can't blackmail them because the first two methods are nonstarters.
- nervlord 5y ago
stale2002 5y ago
> Such as? > What’s the next step Stop trusting sources or information coming out of china, if western sources contradict it. Thats the next step. Update your informational priors, to disregard them. And then also convince other people to disregard them, and make fun of people you know, who uses those sources, if there are contradictory western sources.

torstenvl 5y ago

If you honestly dispute that there are options in foreign affairs between "do absolutely nothing" and "full scale military invasion," then our worldviews are so far apart that I don't think fighting about it on the Internet will be a good use of time for either of us.

bobwaycott 5y ago
You seem to be grossly misinterpreting my comment. I’ve said nothing at all to suggest there are no options in foreign affairs between "do absolutely nothing" and "full scale military invasion”. Where are you even getting that message? I asked what you thought those options are since you seem to have some opinions. Or at least a few of them. Specifically. I don’t see how I said anything that indicates I’m trying to fight on the internet about our worldviews.
- stale2002 5y ago
  > I’ve said nothing at all to suggest there are no options Great. So you agree that there are other options in between do nothing, and an invasion. Both you, and everyone else, agrees on that idea. So that means that you personally can think of some in between those two extremes.

xony 5y ago

awb 5y ago

There are all kinds of forms of cooperation between countries: economic, political, financial, scientific, legal, regulatory, transportation, trade, military, etc. One option instead of full scale invasion is to cut back or attach strings to some of those forms of cooperation. This happens all the time. In this specific scenario, it might look like: Spend $100M upgrading Wuhan lab security and we won’t indefinitely ban travel from Wuhan Province to the US. Or, more aggressively: Shut down the Wuhan lab or we will release tons of hacked data about corruption in the government. Not saying that these are smart options, but you get the idea of the spectrum of options between total absolution and total aggression.

bobwaycott 5y ago
> There are all kinds of forms of cooperation between countries: economic, political, financial, scientific, legal, regulatory, transportation, trade, military, etc. Oh, for sure. Those are certainly the broad categories of foreign policy and cooperative (and coercive) action. I appreciate the specific ideas. I really am just curious what others’ ideas are on specific actions that could be taken if there was suddenly definitive proof tomorrow of origins.
- Moru 5y ago
  The world is so incredible dependent on China for just about everything from the simplest tools to cars, computers and medical equipment. My guess is that it would change nothing, we would still be letting them produce everything for us because it is so much cheaper, and keep letting them grow their economy at record speeds.

UncleEntity 5y ago

Back in the day, that inconvenient time we used to refer to as “history”, there were people called “robber barons”, massive child labor, unsafe working environments &etc. If (the collective) we just shrugged it off because we didn’t want to offend anyone do you think things would be any different today?

x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago

Few people are really answering the question, and I can only assume because everyone knows that the answer is "nothing". Western thought doesn't really work well when it's dealing with a non-Western entity that can defend itself. So while people are up in arms about the lab-leak hypothesis, they can't think past just being upset at China. We can't press China militarily without the Western way of life being threatened, we can't threaten them economically without the Western way of life being threatened and we can't blackmail them because the first two methods are nonstarters.

nervlord 5y ago

stale2002 5y ago

> Such as? > What’s the next step Stop trusting sources or information coming out of china, if western sources contradict it. Thats the next step. Update your informational priors, to disregard them. And then also convince other people to disregard them, and make fun of people you know, who uses those sources, if there are contradictory western sources.