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Adjust your behavior to a car flying at you at 80MP/H? Right. And you do realize that drunk drivers don't need any other traffic to park themselves into a tree?

Adjust your behavior to a car flying at you at 80MP/H? Right. And you do realize that drunk drivers don't need any other traffic to park themselves into a tree? It's the same when gunloon rednecks argue that if it wasn't guns, it would be knifes, all the way down to a paperclip.

ars 15y ago
Not just behavior - environment too. In a world where drunk driving was common and legal I would expect fences by roads, pedestrian safe tunnels, warning lights, and other such features. You are making the common mistake of changing a variable in isolation, without taking into account all the things that flow from your change.
lutorm 15y ago
It's reasonable. It would be so dangerous to be around traffic that other people would avoid it. Thus deaths might go back down, but note that there's nothing saying that everything else would be normal. It would for example be a lot more inconvenient for those that now stay away from traffic to get around. These data should not be used to make the claim that attempting to increase safety is useless. Improved vehicle safety features, for example, has been compensated for by faster driving. That means the safety features didn't help lower deaths, but they did help everyone get around faster.
- ajuc 15y ago
  So if we want to make roads safer, we should make people think driving is more dangerous than it really is. It's counterintuitive - changes in perception of reality are more useful than changes in reality.
  - StavrosK 15y ago
    How does that old chestnut go? "If you want to build the safest car imaginable, put a huge, sharp spike right on the steering wheel"?
  - lloeki 15y ago
    > we should make people think driving is more dangerous than it really is Which is precisely what is being researched and done in various areas, e.g by making the road appear narrower through various visual tricks. And it works. Until people learn. I don't mean by that that they necessarily know they're being tricked and consciously "undo" the trick, but they are then trained to handle a tougher constraint, and thus are able to routinely do something they could not before, out of pure training. The whole danger/constraint/learning system is actually very elastic. The net result is that not only they end up driving at the same speed as before in the modified area, they actually drive faster than before in the other non-modified areas.
- BasDirks 15y ago
  People have a desire for mobility, and are very irrational. Danger does not necessarily deter, said I, enjoying my cigar.
jauco 15y ago
Based on that, you would expect a spurt of additional deaths early on

ars 15y ago

Not just behavior - environment too. In a world where drunk driving was common and legal I would expect fences by roads, pedestrian safe tunnels, warning lights, and other such features. You are making the common mistake of changing a variable in isolation, without taking into account all the things that flow from your change.

lutorm 15y ago

It's reasonable. It would be so dangerous to be around traffic that other people would avoid it. Thus deaths might go back down, but note that there's nothing saying that everything else would be normal. It would for example be a lot more inconvenient for those that now stay away from traffic to get around. These data should not be used to make the claim that attempting to increase safety is useless. Improved vehicle safety features, for example, has been compensated for by faster driving. That means the safety features didn't help lower deaths, but they did help everyone get around faster.

ajuc 15y ago
So if we want to make roads safer, we should make people think driving is more dangerous than it really is. It's counterintuitive - changes in perception of reality are more useful than changes in reality.
- StavrosK 15y ago
  How does that old chestnut go? "If you want to build the safest car imaginable, put a huge, sharp spike right on the steering wheel"?
- lloeki 15y ago
  > we should make people think driving is more dangerous than it really is Which is precisely what is being researched and done in various areas, e.g by making the road appear narrower through various visual tricks. And it works. Until people learn. I don't mean by that that they necessarily know they're being tricked and consciously "undo" the trick, but they are then trained to handle a tougher constraint, and thus are able to routinely do something they could not before, out of pure training. The whole danger/constraint/learning system is actually very elastic. The net result is that not only they end up driving at the same speed as before in the modified area, they actually drive faster than before in the other non-modified areas.
BasDirks 15y ago
People have a desire for mobility, and are very irrational. Danger does not necessarily deter, said I, enjoying my cigar.

jauco 15y ago

Based on that, you would expect a spurt of additional deaths early on