3 ms·

The platform doesn't have any leverage here, they are just a middle man. All the platform can do is to ban the users from their platform. The platform does not

by z3t4 5y ago

The platform doesn't have any leverage here, they are just a middle man. All the platform can do is to ban the users from their platform. The platform does not own the claim, the contractor owns the claim. The platform is just a pay-gate. "Robin" is of course going to say that he has paid, but there are plenty of proof that it was fraud. So "Robin" will have to pay the contractor. But the platform has no claim on the contractor, so the contractor can take the money from "Alex", then walk away from the platform with 2x the money, or pay the platform in order to not get banned. It could be worse, for example if "Alex" was an random dude with false name it would be impossible to claim the money. But now they've met in person and hopefully the contractor knows his ID and address.

CRConrad 5y ago
> The platform doesn't have any leverage here, they are just a middle man. They have all the leverage here, as they are the only party that has any contract with both the other parties. > So "Robin" will have to pay the contractor. No, he will have to pay Upwork! That's whom he signed a deal with! How the fuck can this be so hard to understand?!? > But the platform has no claim on the contractor, Exactly. So why are they trying to impose some bullshit "We're going to keep ALL your future earnings until we get as much as our client bilked us out of" on the contractor? That's the injustice that is the crux of this matter, not this irrelevant "remedy" that you keep blithering about -- which in reality is just a further (huge!) imposition on the only wholly innocent party here, the contractor. > But now they've met in person and hopefully the contractor knows his ID and address. That's wholly, totally, utterly fucking irrelevant. NOT having to use stuff like that to chase after a payment is precisely what the contractor pays Upwork their cut for. At most, as a pure courtesy to Upwork, he could give that info to Upwork for them to use in chasing down "Robin". But: 1) "We met in Zürich" sounds like they quite possibly both travelled there. What use is the address of a hotel where "Robin" stayed a night or two years ago? 2) "His IP"?!? a) Why would he have that? b) What use is an IP address from that hotel, or some Starbucks / daily-rental-office-space in Zürich from years ago? c) Shouldn't Upwork already have all relevant and necessary contact details for their client, "Robin"? I'm sorry: At first I thought you were either trying to make some weird (and bad) joke, or had just suffered some normal misunderstanding of the issues at hand. But as it has become clear that you're just simply refusing to understand what this is all about, I see no use in continuing to try and enlighten you.

by z3t4 5y ago

CRConrad 5y ago

> The platform doesn't have any leverage here, they are just a middle man. They have all the leverage here, as they are the only party that has any contract with both the other parties. > So "Robin" will have to pay the contractor. No, he will have to pay Upwork! That's whom he signed a deal with! How the fuck can this be so hard to understand?!? > But the platform has no claim on the contractor, Exactly. So why are they trying to impose some bullshit "We're going to keep ALL your future earnings until we get as much as our client bilked us out of" on the contractor? That's the injustice that is the crux of this matter, not this irrelevant "remedy" that you keep blithering about -- which in reality is just a further (huge!) imposition on the only wholly innocent party here, the contractor. > But now they've met in person and hopefully the contractor knows his ID and address. That's wholly, totally, utterly fucking irrelevant. NOT having to use stuff like that to chase after a payment is precisely what the contractor pays Upwork their cut for. At most, as a pure courtesy to Upwork, he could give that info to Upwork for them to use in chasing down "Robin". But: 1) "We met in Zürich" sounds like they quite possibly both travelled there. What use is the address of a hotel where "Robin" stayed a night or two years ago? 2) "His IP"?!? a) Why would he have that? b) What use is an IP address from that hotel, or some Starbucks / daily-rental-office-space in Zürich from years ago? c) Shouldn't Upwork already have all relevant and necessary contact details for their client, "Robin"? I'm sorry: At first I thought you were either trying to make some weird (and bad) joke, or had just suffered some normal misunderstanding of the issues at hand. But as it has become clear that you're just simply refusing to understand what this is all about, I see no use in continuing to try and enlighten you.