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> Apple stands between me and my carrier’s sms service You can turn it off at any time. Settings > Messages > iMessage off How does this “harm users”? If anyt

> Apple stands between me and my carrier’s sms service You can turn it off at any time. Settings > Messages > iMessage off How does this “harm users”? If anything it provides a service that most users appreciate heavily: read receipts, typing indicators, flexible group chats. If you want to use SMS, you can. If you want to use WhatsApp, you can. All this talk about Apple having a “monopoly” over its own ecosystem is not only incorrect but just tiresome. Apple isn’t “guilty” of anything here.

extropy 5y ago
Can I have WhatsApp that fallbacks to SMS though? Genuinely curious.
- soperj 5y ago
  On android you can do this with Signal, not sure about IOS.
  - kennywinker 5y ago
    Definitely not. There are no public api’s to send or receive sms’ (except via launching the Messages app)
kennywinker 5y ago
> How does this “harm users”? I get those extras you refer to (read receipts etc) only if i have an iphone and so does the other user. Yet with an open standard i could have those with everyone. Other apps have features imessage does not - yet i can’t intermix whatsapp/snapchat/vibr/telegram etc with my sms messages - apple is holding my sms’ hostage in the imessage app when i might prefer to send sms’ and whatsapp messages from a single app Apple knows the lock-in increases the value of their devices. That’s harm - my iphone costs more.
- ubermonkey 5y ago
  These complaints seem really entitled to me. You can download and use something else if you don't want to use Apple's Messages app. You can configure Messages to use only SMS and not do iMessage. You seem to be saying that Apple should provide a multiprotocol tool that supports a bunch of platforms and allow you to intermingle them, which is a fine thing to want, but if it's not in Apple's interest to build such a thing I don't know how you can describe their choice as "wrong" or "harmful".
  - stale2002 5y ago
    > These complaints seem really entitled to me. No, entitlement is thinking that Apple should be free to break anti-trust law, and engage in illegal anti-competitive practices. We have these law for a reason, and they can and aught be used against companies that engage in anti-competitive practices. > but if it's not in Apple's interest to build such a thing I don't know how you can describe their choice as "wrong" or "harmful". It is wrong and harmful, if it is declared illegally anti-competitive, according to anti-trust law, which they are required to follow.
    - ubermonkey 5y ago
      >No, entitlement is thinking that Apple should be free to break anti-trust law, and engage in illegal anti-competitive practices. Precisely which antitrust statutes is Apple violating? Please be specific.
      - stale2002 5y ago
        The california unfair competition law. Specifically section 17200 which disallows unfair business acts or practices. And specifically what courts have held that this makes illegal would include business acts that "otherwise significantly threatens or harms competition".
        ubermonkey 5y ago
JamisonM 5y ago
"How does this “harm users”?" I don't know how sound this argument is but for me, as a non-Apple user I think I am harmed by people using iMessage, I can't text them without accidentally ending up in that technology ecosystem. I can get 15 context-free messages from other participants in an iMessage group chat. I freaking hate it. If it was clear that iMessage is not SMS then that same person wouldn't send an iMessage group message they would send a mass text, but they don't. I can't force that person to so my SMS in box currently has 15 messages at the top that read "Yes", "No", "Out", "Maybe", "My kid has dance so I will be late", "Sorry man, take me off this list Thursdays are no good for me now"... etc. It sucks.

extropy 5y ago

Can I have WhatsApp that fallbacks to SMS though? Genuinely curious.

soperj 5y ago
On android you can do this with Signal, not sure about IOS.
- kennywinker 5y ago
  Definitely not. There are no public api’s to send or receive sms’ (except via launching the Messages app)

kennywinker 5y ago

> How does this “harm users”? I get those extras you refer to (read receipts etc) only if i have an iphone and so does the other user. Yet with an open standard i could have those with everyone. Other apps have features imessage does not - yet i can’t intermix whatsapp/snapchat/vibr/telegram etc with my sms messages - apple is holding my sms’ hostage in the imessage app when i might prefer to send sms’ and whatsapp messages from a single app Apple knows the lock-in increases the value of their devices. That’s harm - my iphone costs more.

ubermonkey 5y ago
These complaints seem really entitled to me. You can download and use something else if you don't want to use Apple's Messages app. You can configure Messages to use only SMS and not do iMessage. You seem to be saying that Apple should provide a multiprotocol tool that supports a bunch of platforms and allow you to intermingle them, which is a fine thing to want, but if it's not in Apple's interest to build such a thing I don't know how you can describe their choice as "wrong" or "harmful".
- stale2002 5y ago
  > These complaints seem really entitled to me. No, entitlement is thinking that Apple should be free to break anti-trust law, and engage in illegal anti-competitive practices. We have these law for a reason, and they can and aught be used against companies that engage in anti-competitive practices. > but if it's not in Apple's interest to build such a thing I don't know how you can describe their choice as "wrong" or "harmful". It is wrong and harmful, if it is declared illegally anti-competitive, according to anti-trust law, which they are required to follow.
  - ubermonkey 5y ago
    >No, entitlement is thinking that Apple should be free to break anti-trust law, and engage in illegal anti-competitive practices. Precisely which antitrust statutes is Apple violating? Please be specific.
    - stale2002 5y ago
      The california unfair competition law. Specifically section 17200 which disallows unfair business acts or practices. And specifically what courts have held that this makes illegal would include business acts that "otherwise significantly threatens or harms competition".
      - ubermonkey 5y ago

JamisonM 5y ago

"How does this “harm users”?" I don't know how sound this argument is but for me, as a non-Apple user I think I am harmed by people using iMessage, I can't text them without accidentally ending up in that technology ecosystem. I can get 15 context-free messages from other participants in an iMessage group chat. I freaking hate it. If it was clear that iMessage is not SMS then that same person wouldn't send an iMessage group message they would send a mass text, but they don't. I can't force that person to so my SMS in box currently has 15 messages at the top that read "Yes", "No", "Out", "Maybe", "My kid has dance so I will be late", "Sorry man, take me off this list Thursdays are no good for me now"... etc. It sucks.