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10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except a

10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. Most military age males are in a militia. >Every state has laws Ignoring the fact that not all states have laws that specifically ban militias in general (just certain use of them), why on earth would DoJ (federal gov) be enforcing state law? What FEDERAL law bans organizations of men, already part of militia by US Code, from fraternizing together?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
lokar 5y ago
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2020/09/California.pdf https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites...
- notch656a 5y ago
  The paper you say just say the law prohibits militias "from engaging in activities reserved for the state militia, including law enforcement activities. Some, including California, also prohibit paramilitary activity during or in furtherance of a civil disorder." Then it goes on to cite the California misdemeanor for doing so, in state law. Why would DoJ (feds) be investigating misdemeanor state law in California?
  - lokar 5y ago
    I did not mean to imply they should. Rather to refute the common view that self organized private militias are allowed or even somehow encouraged and have some kind of official status.
    - notch656a 5y ago
      The source provided by throw0101a shows that 21 states allow organization of private military unit without any authorization of state government at all. The 'common view' that they are 'allowed' seems to be rooted in reality. https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2018/04/Prohibiting-Private-Armies-at-Public-Rallies.pdf https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites...
throw0101a 5y ago
> This report identifies, for each of the 50 states, the constitutional and statutory provisions relevant to paramilitary and private militia activity. Importantly, each state has at least one constitutional or statutory provision that applies to the type of paramilitary and private militia activity that may arise at future rallies similar to the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville. > ICAP has categorized the relevant state laws into four groups: (1) constitutional provisions requiring the subordination of the military to civilian authorities; (2) statutes restricting unauthorized private militia activity; (3) anti-paramilitary-activity criminal laws; and (4) prohibitions on the false assumption of the uniform or duties of a peace officer or member of the military. The report describes these categories in more detail below and notes which states have statutes or constitutional provisions falling into each category. Following that summary is a chart listing each state’s relevant provisions, and finally each constitutional or statutory provision in full, organized by state. The chart also includes annotations of relevant case law. * https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2018/04/Prohibiting-Private-Armies-at-Public-Rallies.pdf https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites...
- notch656a 5y ago
  Interesting read, thanks. It thoroughly discredits lokar's claim.
notacoward 5y ago
You're totally taking that section of USC out of context. It specifies only the criteria for membership in an organized or unorganized militia. What either is allowed to do is determined by state constitutions and laws. As already noted, every state has significant restrictions on those actions. For example, here's some information on those laws in my own state of Massachusetts. https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2020/09/Massachusetts.pdf https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites... Some choice quotes: === Massachusetts Constitution: The Massachusetts Constitution forbids private military units from operating outside state authority, providing that “the military power shall always be held in exact subordination to the civil authority, and be governed by it.” Mass. Const. pt. I, art. XVII. Massachusetts Statutes – Prohibition on private military units: Massachusetts law makes it illegal for groups of people to organize as private militias without permission from the state. ... Mass. Gen. Laws ch. 33 §§ 1, 130–31. === Phrases like "exact subordination" and "permission of the state" are not just window dressing. They're legally binding. You might consider yourself a member of such a militia, but to operate as such - notably to perform any military or law enforcement function - you must be under state or federal command. As the above document also mentions, every state has similar restrictions. They might differ in details, but the message is the same: without state or federal command, your "sovereign militia" can do no more than cosplay (and sometimes not even that) without getting into legal trouble.
- notch656a 5y ago
  It's not just telling you the criteria for membership, it's telling you who's in it. Again, most military age male citizens of US are in a militia, whether you like it or not. >You might consider yourself a member of such a militia You can consider yourself in or out the militia or not. That doesn't make it fact, from a legal perspective. For government's purposes though I would use government's law, which tells us able-bodied military age males, generally, are in a militia. > notably to perform any military or law enforcement function - you must be under state or federal command. Um, the thread we're both replying to was about 'every state has laws making it illegal to be a member of a private armed militia.' You're arguing about something entirely different here, that is about state laws (not under purview of DoJ) that limit uses of militia.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

lokar 5y ago

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2020/09/California.pdf https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites...

notch656a 5y ago
The paper you say just say the law prohibits militias "from engaging in activities reserved for the state militia, including law enforcement activities. Some, including California, also prohibit paramilitary activity during or in furtherance of a civil disorder." Then it goes on to cite the California misdemeanor for doing so, in state law. Why would DoJ (feds) be investigating misdemeanor state law in California?
- lokar 5y ago
  I did not mean to imply they should. Rather to refute the common view that self organized private militias are allowed or even somehow encouraged and have some kind of official status.
  - notch656a 5y ago
    The source provided by throw0101a shows that 21 states allow organization of private military unit without any authorization of state government at all. The 'common view' that they are 'allowed' seems to be rooted in reality. https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2018/04/Prohibiting-Private-Armies-at-Public-Rallies.pdf https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites...

throw0101a 5y ago

> This report identifies, for each of the 50 states, the constitutional and statutory provisions relevant to paramilitary and private militia activity. Importantly, each state has at least one constitutional or statutory provision that applies to the type of paramilitary and private militia activity that may arise at future rallies similar to the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville. > ICAP has categorized the relevant state laws into four groups: (1) constitutional provisions requiring the subordination of the military to civilian authorities; (2) statutes restricting unauthorized private militia activity; (3) anti-paramilitary-activity criminal laws; and (4) prohibitions on the false assumption of the uniform or duties of a peace officer or member of the military. The report describes these categories in more detail below and notes which states have statutes or constitutional provisions falling into each category. Following that summary is a chart listing each state’s relevant provisions, and finally each constitutional or statutory provision in full, organized by state. The chart also includes annotations of relevant case law. * https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2018/04/Prohibiting-Private-Armies-at-Public-Rallies.pdf https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites...

notch656a 5y ago
Interesting read, thanks. It thoroughly discredits lokar's claim.

notacoward 5y ago

You're totally taking that section of USC out of context. It specifies only the criteria for membership in an organized or unorganized militia. What either is allowed to do is determined by state constitutions and laws. As already noted, every state has significant restrictions on those actions. For example, here's some information on those laws in my own state of Massachusetts. https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2020/09/Massachusetts.pdf https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites... Some choice quotes: === Massachusetts Constitution: The Massachusetts Constitution forbids private military units from operating outside state authority, providing that “the military power shall always be held in exact subordination to the civil authority, and be governed by it.” Mass. Const. pt. I, art. XVII. Massachusetts Statutes – Prohibition on private military units: Massachusetts law makes it illegal for groups of people to organize as private militias without permission from the state. ... Mass. Gen. Laws ch. 33 §§ 1, 130–31. === Phrases like "exact subordination" and "permission of the state" are not just window dressing. They're legally binding. You might consider yourself a member of such a militia, but to operate as such - notably to perform any military or law enforcement function - you must be under state or federal command. As the above document also mentions, every state has similar restrictions. They might differ in details, but the message is the same: without state or federal command, your "sovereign militia" can do no more than cosplay (and sometimes not even that) without getting into legal trouble.

notch656a 5y ago
It's not just telling you the criteria for membership, it's telling you who's in it. Again, most military age male citizens of US are in a militia, whether you like it or not. >You might consider yourself a member of such a militia You can consider yourself in or out the militia or not. That doesn't make it fact, from a legal perspective. For government's purposes though I would use government's law, which tells us able-bodied military age males, generally, are in a militia. > notably to perform any military or law enforcement function - you must be under state or federal command. Um, the thread we're both replying to was about 'every state has laws making it illegal to be a member of a private armed militia.' You're arguing about something entirely different here, that is about state laws (not under purview of DoJ) that limit uses of militia.