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I guess we have to ask ourselves a different question if we truly want to create a sustainable urban environment: Why can grandparents only visit by car? Why a

by donjoe 5y ago

I guess we have to ask ourselves a different question if we truly want to create a sustainable urban environment: Why can grandparents only visit by car? Why are there no (better) alternatives?

donatj 5y ago
Because when you live 75 miles from the nearest major city, in a township of a couple hundred, a bus line or really any sort of infrastructure for that matter isn't practical? I think a lot of people forget how sparse much of the country really is.
- ghaff 5y ago
  Or to come into a city for an evening event. I'm actually quite close to commuter rail to the 40 mile away large city. Which I take if I'm going in 9-5 but it's completely impractical to use for going in for dinner and a show.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    Why is it impractical for dinner and a show?
    - ghaff 5y ago
      It takes longer (with reverse commute traffic and less going home). I'd have to leave early to make it in time for dinner. And I'd have to hope I hit one of the infrequent trains that run after rush hour. It's completely impractical. I just wouldn't do it.
      - donjoe 5y ago
        Why don't more people ask for better train connections? Trains would allow kids, elderly, people without a driver's license or the financial means to afford a car to participate in society as well.
        ghaff 5y ago
        You pretty much need a car/ride to take commuter rail anyway. Relatively few people live walking distance from a suburban/exurban station. And there's just very little demand for the train outside of commuting hours--and would be even if they ran significantly more trains.
    - gyc 5y ago
      Some commuter rail lines in the U.S. are designed to only cater to commuters. So they may not run any train into downtown at night, or they may stop running well before the shows end at night, so there's no way to use the trains to get back home.
      - ghaff 5y ago
        There are a few out of the city until about 11:30 or so. I'd be hanging around for maybe an hour+ then a fairly long train trip to my car.
    - ajford 5y ago
      Not the OP, but I had the same issue living in North Austin, TX. I was nearly outside ATX, and would have loved to take the rail downtown for a night of bar-hopping and then not have to drive back. But the last northbound train was at like 10 or 11pm. That meant while I could take the train to downtown, it wasn't practical (at least for a night of bar hopping) unless I wanted to spend a hefty sum on a return Uber at the end of the night.
- celtain 5y ago
  I think you overestimate the share of Americans who live in rural communities. If the only people driving into developed areas were coming from that far afield, managing traffic and parking would be trivial problems.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  And the reason they drive all the way into downtown and crowd up the streets as opposed to the nearest major train stop (with far cheaper lad for parking) is?
- donjoe 5y ago
  Well, this is exactly the opposite to an urban environment - this is urban sprawl. Is it better to construct and maintain 75 miles of roads (and all the other infrastructure) for a couple of hundred folks? I highly recommend this video on the finances around urban sprawl and their long term consequences: https://youtu.be/XfQUOHlAocY https://youtu.be/XfQUOHlAocY
  - donatj 5y ago
    Huh, so at 2:23 the speaker brings up Brainerd Minnesota. A town I am very familiar with, having visited family there many times growing up. Cute little town, big chunk of the economy is people coming up to go fishing. He really cherry picked the least flattering angle on modern Front Street. Here's a better angle - https://goo.gl/maps/CBnqs6i9YLG1mSEG6 https://goo.gl/maps/CBnqs6i9YLG1mSEG6 It's a very strange town to pick to make an argument about sprawl with - Brainard is a pretty densely packed small town as far as towns in Minnesota go.
    - donjoe 5y ago
      I just see a huge parking lot. What do you see?

by donjoe 5y ago

I guess we have to ask ourselves a different question if we truly want to create a sustainable urban environment: Why can grandparents only visit by car? Why are there no (better) alternatives?

donatj 5y ago

Because when you live 75 miles from the nearest major city, in a township of a couple hundred, a bus line or really any sort of infrastructure for that matter isn't practical? I think a lot of people forget how sparse much of the country really is.

ghaff 5y ago
Or to come into a city for an evening event. I'm actually quite close to commuter rail to the 40 mile away large city. Which I take if I'm going in 9-5 but it's completely impractical to use for going in for dinner and a show.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  Why is it impractical for dinner and a show?
  - ghaff 5y ago
    It takes longer (with reverse commute traffic and less going home). I'd have to leave early to make it in time for dinner. And I'd have to hope I hit one of the infrequent trains that run after rush hour. It's completely impractical. I just wouldn't do it.
    - donjoe 5y ago
      Why don't more people ask for better train connections? Trains would allow kids, elderly, people without a driver's license or the financial means to afford a car to participate in society as well.
      - ghaff 5y ago
        You pretty much need a car/ride to take commuter rail anyway. Relatively few people live walking distance from a suburban/exurban station. And there's just very little demand for the train outside of commuting hours--and would be even if they ran significantly more trains.
  - gyc 5y ago
    Some commuter rail lines in the U.S. are designed to only cater to commuters. So they may not run any train into downtown at night, or they may stop running well before the shows end at night, so there's no way to use the trains to get back home.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      There are a few out of the city until about 11:30 or so. I'd be hanging around for maybe an hour+ then a fairly long train trip to my car.
  - ajford 5y ago
    Not the OP, but I had the same issue living in North Austin, TX. I was nearly outside ATX, and would have loved to take the rail downtown for a night of bar-hopping and then not have to drive back. But the last northbound train was at like 10 or 11pm. That meant while I could take the train to downtown, it wasn't practical (at least for a night of bar hopping) unless I wanted to spend a hefty sum on a return Uber at the end of the night.
celtain 5y ago
I think you overestimate the share of Americans who live in rural communities. If the only people driving into developed areas were coming from that far afield, managing traffic and parking would be trivial problems.
HWR_14 5y ago
And the reason they drive all the way into downtown and crowd up the streets as opposed to the nearest major train stop (with far cheaper lad for parking) is?
donjoe 5y ago
Well, this is exactly the opposite to an urban environment - this is urban sprawl. Is it better to construct and maintain 75 miles of roads (and all the other infrastructure) for a couple of hundred folks? I highly recommend this video on the finances around urban sprawl and their long term consequences: https://youtu.be/XfQUOHlAocY https://youtu.be/XfQUOHlAocY
- donatj 5y ago
  Huh, so at 2:23 the speaker brings up Brainerd Minnesota. A town I am very familiar with, having visited family there many times growing up. Cute little town, big chunk of the economy is people coming up to go fishing. He really cherry picked the least flattering angle on modern Front Street. Here's a better angle - https://goo.gl/maps/CBnqs6i9YLG1mSEG6 https://goo.gl/maps/CBnqs6i9YLG1mSEG6 It's a very strange town to pick to make an argument about sprawl with - Brainard is a pretty densely packed small town as far as towns in Minnesota go.
  - donjoe 5y ago
    I just see a huge parking lot. What do you see?