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To be honest, when installing on Linux is hard, to me it feels worthwhile -- I'm gaining experience and knowledge. And in contrast, the slightest annoyance on

To be honest, when installing on Linux is hard, to me it feels worthwhile -- I'm gaining experience and knowledge. And in contrast, the slightest annoyance on Windows confirms my worst feelings about Windows, and I give up quickly in disguest. For whatever (illusory) reason, Linux comes across as logical and an interesting puzzle that is worth the time invested, whereas Windows comes across as arbitrary and makes me feel like I've wasted my time. Yes, it's a double standard but what can I say. At least with Linux, you can drill down as far as you want (and with Windows, I feel that I can't but it's partially a case of "Why should I bother, I can't see the source.")

mattgreenrocks 15y ago
Obviously, you haven't played with anything that uses autotools, have you? :) > it's partially a case of "Why should I bother, I can't see the source." I used to think this too. Then I noticed that my Ubuntu 10.04 machine exhibits hard-lock like symptoms anytime I make -j. I know approximately what the problem is: the kernel scheduler isn't giving enough time to the UI while it does this, but, even with source, it isn't something I can fix trivially. Just reading the source and seeing where it happens doesn't do anything to make me feel better. It shouldn't ever happen. Period.
- nitrogen 15y ago
  Then I noticed that my Ubuntu 10.04 machine exhibits hard-lock like symptoms anytime I make -j. I know approximately what the problem is: the kernel scheduler isn't giving enough time to the UI while it does this, but, even with source, it isn't something I can fix trivially. Just reading the source and seeing where it happens doesn't do anything to make me feel better. It shouldn't ever happen. Period. Try upgrading to the latest version of Linux (or just upgrade your entire Ubuntu distribution). This problem was fixed by a tweak to the scheduler that creates a scheduling group for each pseudoterminal. For that matter, you probably shouldn't use make -j anyway, since AIUI it just forks until it can't anymore, and doesn't pay any attention to how much RAM gcc/g++ is using. I use make -j [ncpus] instead, which is very nearly optimal (and is optimal with the BFS scheduler).
  - mattgreenrocks 15y ago
    Thanks. I think we're stuck on 10.04 but I'll try it again one of these days.

mattgreenrocks 15y ago

Obviously, you haven't played with anything that uses autotools, have you? :) > it's partially a case of "Why should I bother, I can't see the source." I used to think this too. Then I noticed that my Ubuntu 10.04 machine exhibits hard-lock like symptoms anytime I make -j. I know approximately what the problem is: the kernel scheduler isn't giving enough time to the UI while it does this, but, even with source, it isn't something I can fix trivially. Just reading the source and seeing where it happens doesn't do anything to make me feel better. It shouldn't ever happen. Period.

nitrogen 15y ago
Then I noticed that my Ubuntu 10.04 machine exhibits hard-lock like symptoms anytime I make -j. I know approximately what the problem is: the kernel scheduler isn't giving enough time to the UI while it does this, but, even with source, it isn't something I can fix trivially. Just reading the source and seeing where it happens doesn't do anything to make me feel better. It shouldn't ever happen. Period. Try upgrading to the latest version of Linux (or just upgrade your entire Ubuntu distribution). This problem was fixed by a tweak to the scheduler that creates a scheduling group for each pseudoterminal. For that matter, you probably shouldn't use make -j anyway, since AIUI it just forks until it can't anymore, and doesn't pay any attention to how much RAM gcc/g++ is using. I use make -j [ncpus] instead, which is very nearly optimal (and is optimal with the BFS scheduler).
- mattgreenrocks 15y ago
  Thanks. I think we're stuck on 10.04 but I'll try it again one of these days.