5 ms·

While I understand the sentiment, this makes cities even more unfriendly to families with kids. How can grandparents or relatives visit for a weekend?

decafninja 5y ago
I'll say it before someone else inevitably does - they're supposed to take public transportation and/or cabs.
- nomel 5y ago
  When I was young, I didn't live in a big city, and I tried to believe someone who said "just take public transportation", rather than the 3 hours trip, by car. It was 13 hours and $60 by bus (the shortest/cheapest option). By cab, it would have been, literally, 5x my car payment. It wasn't a sane option.
donjoe 5y ago
I guess we have to ask ourselves a different question if we truly want to create a sustainable urban environment: Why can grandparents only visit by car? Why are there no (better) alternatives?
- donatj 5y ago
  Because when you live 75 miles from the nearest major city, in a township of a couple hundred, a bus line or really any sort of infrastructure for that matter isn't practical? I think a lot of people forget how sparse much of the country really is.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    Or to come into a city for an evening event. I'm actually quite close to commuter rail to the 40 mile away large city. Which I take if I'm going in 9-5 but it's completely impractical to use for going in for dinner and a show.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      Why is it impractical for dinner and a show?
      - ghaff 5y ago
        It takes longer (with reverse commute traffic and less going home). I'd have to leave early to make it in time for dinner. And I'd have to hope I hit one of the infrequent trains that run after rush hour. It's completely impractical. I just wouldn't do it.
        donjoe 5y ago
        Why don't more people ask for better train connections? Trains would allow kids, elderly, people without a driver's license or the financial means to afford a car to participate in society as well.
        ghaff 5y ago
        You pretty much need a car/ride to take commuter rail anyway. Relatively few people live walking distance from a suburban/exurban station. And there's just very little demand for the train outside of commuting hours--and would be even if they ran significantly more trains.
      - gyc 5y ago
        Some commuter rail lines in the U.S. are designed to only cater to commuters. So they may not run any train into downtown at night, or they may stop running well before the shows end at night, so there's no way to use the trains to get back home.
        ghaff 5y ago
        There are a few out of the city until about 11:30 or so. I'd be hanging around for maybe an hour+ then a fairly long train trip to my car.
      - 5y ago
  - celtain 5y ago
    I think you overestimate the share of Americans who live in rural communities. If the only people driving into developed areas were coming from that far afield, managing traffic and parking would be trivial problems.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    And the reason they drive all the way into downtown and crowd up the streets as opposed to the nearest major train stop (with far cheaper lad for parking) is?
  - donjoe 5y ago
    Well, this is exactly the opposite to an urban environment - this is urban sprawl. Is it better to construct and maintain 75 miles of roads (and all the other infrastructure) for a couple of hundred folks? I highly recommend this video on the finances around urban sprawl and their long term consequences: https://youtu.be/XfQUOHlAocY https://youtu.be/XfQUOHlAocY
    - donatj 5y ago
      Huh, so at 2:23 the speaker brings up Brainerd Minnesota. A town I am very familiar with, having visited family there many times growing up. Cute little town, big chunk of the economy is people coming up to go fishing. He really cherry picked the least flattering angle on modern Front Street. Here's a better angle - https://goo.gl/maps/CBnqs6i9YLG1mSEG6 https://goo.gl/maps/CBnqs6i9YLG1mSEG6 It's a very strange town to pick to make an argument about sprawl with - Brainard is a pretty densely packed small town as far as towns in Minnesota go.
      - donjoe 5y ago
        I just see a huge parking lot. What do you see?
fatnoah 5y ago
>How can grandparents or relatives visit for a weekend? Speaking as someone who moved the family to the city and had a fair number of (free) on and (paid) off street parking options nearby, for about 50% of the people we knew, it was like we moved to the moon. Even though we only moved about 5 miles, but that "parking" thing was a massive disincentive for people to come to visit. On the other side of the coin, my small town mom loved that she didn't have to drive at all and could take a 90 minute bus ride to come visit. For the other set of grandparents, who were uncomfortable with driving in and parking, we'd simply drive out to pick them up. EDIT: I'm also reasonably confident that the 4th floor walkup was just as intimidating as the parking situation

decafninja 5y ago

I'll say it before someone else inevitably does - they're supposed to take public transportation and/or cabs.

nomel 5y ago
When I was young, I didn't live in a big city, and I tried to believe someone who said "just take public transportation", rather than the 3 hours trip, by car. It was 13 hours and $60 by bus (the shortest/cheapest option). By cab, it would have been, literally, 5x my car payment. It wasn't a sane option.

donjoe 5y ago

I guess we have to ask ourselves a different question if we truly want to create a sustainable urban environment: Why can grandparents only visit by car? Why are there no (better) alternatives?

donatj 5y ago
Because when you live 75 miles from the nearest major city, in a township of a couple hundred, a bus line or really any sort of infrastructure for that matter isn't practical? I think a lot of people forget how sparse much of the country really is.
- ghaff 5y ago
  Or to come into a city for an evening event. I'm actually quite close to commuter rail to the 40 mile away large city. Which I take if I'm going in 9-5 but it's completely impractical to use for going in for dinner and a show.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    Why is it impractical for dinner and a show?
    - ghaff 5y ago
      It takes longer (with reverse commute traffic and less going home). I'd have to leave early to make it in time for dinner. And I'd have to hope I hit one of the infrequent trains that run after rush hour. It's completely impractical. I just wouldn't do it.
      - donjoe 5y ago
        Why don't more people ask for better train connections? Trains would allow kids, elderly, people without a driver's license or the financial means to afford a car to participate in society as well.
        ghaff 5y ago
        You pretty much need a car/ride to take commuter rail anyway. Relatively few people live walking distance from a suburban/exurban station. And there's just very little demand for the train outside of commuting hours--and would be even if they ran significantly more trains.
    - gyc 5y ago
      Some commuter rail lines in the U.S. are designed to only cater to commuters. So they may not run any train into downtown at night, or they may stop running well before the shows end at night, so there's no way to use the trains to get back home.
      - ghaff 5y ago
        There are a few out of the city until about 11:30 or so. I'd be hanging around for maybe an hour+ then a fairly long train trip to my car.
    - 5y ago
- celtain 5y ago
  I think you overestimate the share of Americans who live in rural communities. If the only people driving into developed areas were coming from that far afield, managing traffic and parking would be trivial problems.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  And the reason they drive all the way into downtown and crowd up the streets as opposed to the nearest major train stop (with far cheaper lad for parking) is?
- donjoe 5y ago
  Well, this is exactly the opposite to an urban environment - this is urban sprawl. Is it better to construct and maintain 75 miles of roads (and all the other infrastructure) for a couple of hundred folks? I highly recommend this video on the finances around urban sprawl and their long term consequences: https://youtu.be/XfQUOHlAocY https://youtu.be/XfQUOHlAocY
  - donatj 5y ago
    Huh, so at 2:23 the speaker brings up Brainerd Minnesota. A town I am very familiar with, having visited family there many times growing up. Cute little town, big chunk of the economy is people coming up to go fishing. He really cherry picked the least flattering angle on modern Front Street. Here's a better angle - https://goo.gl/maps/CBnqs6i9YLG1mSEG6 https://goo.gl/maps/CBnqs6i9YLG1mSEG6 It's a very strange town to pick to make an argument about sprawl with - Brainard is a pretty densely packed small town as far as towns in Minnesota go.
    - donjoe 5y ago
      I just see a huge parking lot. What do you see?

fatnoah 5y ago

>How can grandparents or relatives visit for a weekend? Speaking as someone who moved the family to the city and had a fair number of (free) on and (paid) off street parking options nearby, for about 50% of the people we knew, it was like we moved to the moon. Even though we only moved about 5 miles, but that "parking" thing was a massive disincentive for people to come to visit. On the other side of the coin, my small town mom loved that she didn't have to drive at all and could take a 90 minute bus ride to come visit. For the other set of grandparents, who were uncomfortable with driving in and parking, we'd simply drive out to pick them up. EDIT: I'm also reasonably confident that the 4th floor walkup was just as intimidating as the parking situation