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What's the point of releasing new language features if you can't use them? Web-developers don't deserve quality of life improvements but the developers working

What's the point of releasing new language features if you can't use them? Web-developers don't deserve quality of life improvements but the developers working for Google and Apple do?

rossipedia 5y ago
You absolutely can. The issue isn't _using_ the optional chaining operator, the issue is that it wasn't compiled down to something that older platforms can understand. Developer quality of life doesn't have to conflict with what's supported on older platforms.
- programmer_dude 5y ago
  Sounds like a good solution to the posted problem. But the device user should be allowed to upgrade their browser and OS too.
  - Bilal_io 5y ago
    Sometimes users use older browser because of ignorance, they don't know how to upgrade, or because they don't want to.
- teawrecks 5y ago
  And what do you do when the only way to support a new feature on a legacy system necessarily introduces a security risk? Special case it?
  - rossipedia 5y ago
    That's a hard problem to solve, and I don't think there are any easy answers. It depends on many factors. What kind of business, what the risk/threat model is, cost/benefit analysis, all that kind of stuff.
Falell 5y ago
You can use the latest goodies in environments that you control. Server side node, client side node, etc. This is a common thing when working on library-like-things outside the web too. Widely used C++ libraries generally aren't taking hard dependencies on C++20 features right now without continuing to support e.g. C++11/14/17.
slotrans 5y ago
> Web-developers don't deserve quality of life improvements Don't you think the customer experience is strictly more important than the developer experience?
- urthor 5y ago
  Essentially, no. Especially if the developer is giving their time for free website. The developer is putting in the hard yards to make the website for their community event. Why shouldn't the user make the effort to have a web browser that's updated to 2022? It's a complex conversation, but "the customer is always right" is not always the case.
mrweasel 5y ago
There's a few things that makes it a little different, but the lack of updates is certainly an issue. The developers do have access to statistic about exactly how many clients they'll break. They might have felt that it's so few that the ease of development justifed breaking the website for just a few users. They could tell them that their browser is too old, saving many a lot of headache. In this case, the problem, making a reservation to volunteer, is simple enough that you could have solved it with a CGI script in 2001, and it would still work. So it only broken, because someone felt it needed to be more modern. Remember, this is people who volunteer their time, they're not forced to do anything, so you have to be as accommodating as possible.

What's the point of releasing new language features if you can't use them? Web-developers don't deserve quality of life improvements but the developers working for Google and Apple do?

rossipedia 5y ago

You absolutely can. The issue isn't _using_ the optional chaining operator, the issue is that it wasn't compiled down to something that older platforms can understand. Developer quality of life doesn't have to conflict with what's supported on older platforms.

programmer_dude 5y ago
Sounds like a good solution to the posted problem. But the device user should be allowed to upgrade their browser and OS too.
- Bilal_io 5y ago
  Sometimes users use older browser because of ignorance, they don't know how to upgrade, or because they don't want to.
teawrecks 5y ago
And what do you do when the only way to support a new feature on a legacy system necessarily introduces a security risk? Special case it?
- rossipedia 5y ago
  That's a hard problem to solve, and I don't think there are any easy answers. It depends on many factors. What kind of business, what the risk/threat model is, cost/benefit analysis, all that kind of stuff.

Falell 5y ago

You can use the latest goodies in environments that you control. Server side node, client side node, etc. This is a common thing when working on library-like-things outside the web too. Widely used C++ libraries generally aren't taking hard dependencies on C++20 features right now without continuing to support e.g. C++11/14/17.

slotrans 5y ago

> Web-developers don't deserve quality of life improvements Don't you think the customer experience is strictly more important than the developer experience?

urthor 5y ago
Essentially, no. Especially if the developer is giving their time for free website. The developer is putting in the hard yards to make the website for their community event. Why shouldn't the user make the effort to have a web browser that's updated to 2022? It's a complex conversation, but "the customer is always right" is not always the case.

mrweasel 5y ago

There's a few things that makes it a little different, but the lack of updates is certainly an issue. The developers do have access to statistic about exactly how many clients they'll break. They might have felt that it's so few that the ease of development justifed breaking the website for just a few users. They could tell them that their browser is too old, saving many a lot of headache. In this case, the problem, making a reservation to volunteer, is simple enough that you could have solved it with a CGI script in 2001, and it would still work. So it only broken, because someone felt it needed to be more modern. Remember, this is people who volunteer their time, they're not forced to do anything, so you have to be as accommodating as possible.