4 ms·

iOS also doesn't allow the browser to be updated after the hardware has reached end-of-support. In general, Chrome OS devices have 6-8 years of support, while i

iOS also doesn't allow the browser to be updated after the hardware has reached end-of-support. In general, Chrome OS devices have 6-8 years of support, while iOS seems to have ~7. But in the case of Chrome OS this is likely to be fixed soon because Chrome is getting unbundled from Chrome OS, meaning it can be updated separately. This is codenamed Lacros and is in testing now. Devices currently receiving updates are likely to get it. https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/09/12/google-is-separating-chrome-from-chrome-os-its-a-big-deal-heres-what-you-need-to-know/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/09/12/google-is-separatin... Also, Chrome OS devices explicitly support unlocking and installing alternative OSes. If you don't like what Google does with Chrome OS you can install Linux or Windows instead and keep using your hardware as long as you like.

core-utility 5y ago
Phones are a bit more of a commodity than laptops/desktops are, I think primarily because of the strong evolution you see in comparison over the same timeframe. A laptop from 7-8 years ago largely still is capable of running the latest software (and most of the time Operating Systems), while an 8 year old phone hardly has the performance to do either with the advancements that have been made.
- _trampeltier 5y ago
  I also bought a new phone for my mom just because, the latest android update was 2017 and some apps did not work any longer, so we bought a new phone. The phone was still in a pretty good shape and the battery too. She just used here phone very rarely.
- loosescrews 5y ago
  Note that the average price of an iPhone is higher than the average price of a Chromebook.
- fartcannon 5y ago
  You only think that because that's what we've let transpire. It's a disgrace that I can not use my iPhone or Android phone to easily create new software, only consume. They're more than powerful enough to fully replace most computer usage including software development. But no, we've let them normalize locking the OS, and hiding the file system. Its an absolute disgrace.
  - eptcyka 5y ago
    Locking the filesystem doesn't necessarily mean developing with them is impossible. What is preventing IDEs from working is the inability to execute unsigned binaries combined with the absence of signing binaries locally. And I agree, I too see this as an invitation to fornicate myself, a personal invitiation signed by google and Apple no less.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - skinnymuch 5y ago
    Hah I so strongly disagree with your Phil Xbox take. But am nodding along agreeing with a lot of your recent comments. This one especially. It is absolutely a disgrace. Not even specifically to create software. Not allowing root, the ways of the app stores, the entire UX. It all focuses on consumption and weak workflow. A 13 inch iPad could very easily be a dedicated developer device (and some do get by this way), but it’s such a pain.
- heleninboodler 5y ago
  iPads and phones are different beasts, though. I personally have much lower expectations of my ipad, and one of those fairly low expectations is that the browser should continue working (with the implied, "and be safe to use" that requires security updates) for as long as the device doesn't physically break. I get that Apple can't be expected to keep developing software for these forever, but I'd be a lot happier if they would transition them to some kind of minimal support where they publish routine OS and security updates for them rather than just abandoning them. They also have this habit of ratcheting up the OS targeting requirements of the SDKs so app builders end up unwittingly building new versions of their apps that exclude old devices unnecessarily. I'm not sure my oldest ipad could install any of its apps again if I uninstalled them, even the ones from Apple.
  - ryandrake 5y ago
    As someone who still has (and uses, offline) his original iPad, I can tell you the App Store is now a barren wasteland on that device. Nobody's app runs on it anymore! So don't delete anything. It's a disgrace that while hardware is starting to vastly outlast software, somehow we have managed to normalize 2-3 years of software support for hardware gizmos and consider 5 years to be generous. And consumers accept this! 5 years is nothing. I have a PC next to me that I bought 20 years ago, and it still works excellently and runs a relatively recent version of Linux. I last updated my phone only because I had to: It was so "old" that it was dangerous to even connect to the Internet. Still worked wonderfully, made calls, but the manufacturer abandoned it (and me) and stopped supplying security updates. So a perfectly functional phone goes into a landfill. This should be totally unacceptable.
    - alisonkisk 5y ago
null_object 5y ago
> iOS also doesn't allow the browser to be updated after the hardware has reached end-of-support. Just simply not true. Plenty of browsers are still updated for iOS12 and 8-year old hardware like the 2013 iPad Air (which I still use every day) Edit: getting downvoted - while writing this post on iCab Mobile browser which was updated less than a month ago... Follow-up: Well I tested the language ‘feature’ in this browser - and though it didn’t crash, it didn’t run the function either. I’d forgotten what a sh*tshow of crappy and unnecessary garbage modern front end JavaScript development was.
- modeless 5y ago
  Apple has fooled you. Those aren't complete browsers. Those are simply UI shells around the system version of WebKit which cannot be updated or bypassed or replaced. No new web platform features will be added, no bugs fixed, and security holes are not guaranteed to be addressed.
  - heresaPizza 5y ago
    While what you said is true, iOS 12 still received some security fixes, so the total support for the iphone 5s is 9 years and 8 for the 6. Critical bugs shouldn’t be that big of a threat (considering that even up to date phones are colanders.
- ksec 5y ago
  >Edit: getting downvoted You are getting downvoted because Webkit Engine is not updated with the browser. In this case iCab Mobile Browser. As noted in other reply it is merely a shell or skin on top of the OS Webkit Engine. Hence you are objectively wrong.
  - mcguire 5y ago
    Technically, I downvoted because "I’d forgotten what a shtshow of crappy and unnecessary garbage modern front end JavaScript development was.*" while essentially true, has nothing to do with the question at hand.
GloriousKoji 5y ago
> Also, Chrome OS devices explicitly support unlocking and installing alternative OSes. Not anymore they don't. I recently bought a chromebook hoping to nuke it and install Linux but the bootloader is locked and I can't install any random OS. There's even dedicated linux distros like Gallium OS targeting chromebook devices specifically but if you look at the compatibility chart it's support is very limited for anything newer than 2018. Even crouton compatibility wasn't satisfactory and I gave up and just went full google approved with Crostini.
- TheDong 5y ago
  > Not anymore they don't. I recently bought a chromebook .. but the bootloader is locked Every ChromeOS device I know of supports developer mode, and I was fairly sure google mandated it. Which device do you have which does not support developer mode?
  - GloriousKoji 5y ago
    Acer 311 but any chromebook with an Intel Gemini Lake processor has a locked bootloader and bios. Developer Mode can be enabled but the most that gets is installing crouton which is still beholden to booting Chrome OS and using it's kernel.
    - TheDong 5y ago
      Oh, huh, indeed that seems to be more involved than just developer mode. That one supports CCD, so you can still "root" it, but instead of just enabling developer mode, you also have to connect a cable and go through a slightly more involved process. Fortunately, it's quite well documented: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform/ec/+/cr50_stab/docs/case_closed_debugging_cr50.md#ccd-open https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform/ec/+/c... It's still not fully locked since following the above doc should let you flash your own firmware
- modeless 5y ago
  You can't enable developer mode? What Chromebook is that?

core-utility 5y ago

Phones are a bit more of a commodity than laptops/desktops are, I think primarily because of the strong evolution you see in comparison over the same timeframe. A laptop from 7-8 years ago largely still is capable of running the latest software (and most of the time Operating Systems), while an 8 year old phone hardly has the performance to do either with the advancements that have been made.

_trampeltier 5y ago
I also bought a new phone for my mom just because, the latest android update was 2017 and some apps did not work any longer, so we bought a new phone. The phone was still in a pretty good shape and the battery too. She just used here phone very rarely.
loosescrews 5y ago
Note that the average price of an iPhone is higher than the average price of a Chromebook.
fartcannon 5y ago
You only think that because that's what we've let transpire. It's a disgrace that I can not use my iPhone or Android phone to easily create new software, only consume. They're more than powerful enough to fully replace most computer usage including software development. But no, we've let them normalize locking the OS, and hiding the file system. Its an absolute disgrace.
- eptcyka 5y ago
  Locking the filesystem doesn't necessarily mean developing with them is impossible. What is preventing IDEs from working is the inability to execute unsigned binaries combined with the absence of signing binaries locally. And I agree, I too see this as an invitation to fornicate myself, a personal invitiation signed by google and Apple no less.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- skinnymuch 5y ago
  Hah I so strongly disagree with your Phil Xbox take. But am nodding along agreeing with a lot of your recent comments. This one especially. It is absolutely a disgrace. Not even specifically to create software. Not allowing root, the ways of the app stores, the entire UX. It all focuses on consumption and weak workflow. A 13 inch iPad could very easily be a dedicated developer device (and some do get by this way), but it’s such a pain.
heleninboodler 5y ago
iPads and phones are different beasts, though. I personally have much lower expectations of my ipad, and one of those fairly low expectations is that the browser should continue working (with the implied, "and be safe to use" that requires security updates) for as long as the device doesn't physically break. I get that Apple can't be expected to keep developing software for these forever, but I'd be a lot happier if they would transition them to some kind of minimal support where they publish routine OS and security updates for them rather than just abandoning them. They also have this habit of ratcheting up the OS targeting requirements of the SDKs so app builders end up unwittingly building new versions of their apps that exclude old devices unnecessarily. I'm not sure my oldest ipad could install any of its apps again if I uninstalled them, even the ones from Apple.
- ryandrake 5y ago
  As someone who still has (and uses, offline) his original iPad, I can tell you the App Store is now a barren wasteland on that device. Nobody's app runs on it anymore! So don't delete anything. It's a disgrace that while hardware is starting to vastly outlast software, somehow we have managed to normalize 2-3 years of software support for hardware gizmos and consider 5 years to be generous. And consumers accept this! 5 years is nothing. I have a PC next to me that I bought 20 years ago, and it still works excellently and runs a relatively recent version of Linux. I last updated my phone only because I had to: It was so "old" that it was dangerous to even connect to the Internet. Still worked wonderfully, made calls, but the manufacturer abandoned it (and me) and stopped supplying security updates. So a perfectly functional phone goes into a landfill. This should be totally unacceptable.
  - alisonkisk 5y ago

null_object 5y ago

> iOS also doesn't allow the browser to be updated after the hardware has reached end-of-support. Just simply not true. Plenty of browsers are still updated for iOS12 and 8-year old hardware like the 2013 iPad Air (which I still use every day) Edit: getting downvoted - while writing this post on iCab Mobile browser which was updated less than a month ago... Follow-up: Well I tested the language ‘feature’ in this browser - and though it didn’t crash, it didn’t run the function either. I’d forgotten what a sh*tshow of crappy and unnecessary garbage modern front end JavaScript development was.

modeless 5y ago
Apple has fooled you. Those aren't complete browsers. Those are simply UI shells around the system version of WebKit which cannot be updated or bypassed or replaced. No new web platform features will be added, no bugs fixed, and security holes are not guaranteed to be addressed.
- heresaPizza 5y ago
  While what you said is true, iOS 12 still received some security fixes, so the total support for the iphone 5s is 9 years and 8 for the 6. Critical bugs shouldn’t be that big of a threat (considering that even up to date phones are colanders.
ksec 5y ago
>Edit: getting downvoted You are getting downvoted because Webkit Engine is not updated with the browser. In this case iCab Mobile Browser. As noted in other reply it is merely a shell or skin on top of the OS Webkit Engine. Hence you are objectively wrong.
- mcguire 5y ago
  Technically, I downvoted because "I’d forgotten what a shtshow of crappy and unnecessary garbage modern front end JavaScript development was.*" while essentially true, has nothing to do with the question at hand.

GloriousKoji 5y ago

> Also, Chrome OS devices explicitly support unlocking and installing alternative OSes. Not anymore they don't. I recently bought a chromebook hoping to nuke it and install Linux but the bootloader is locked and I can't install any random OS. There's even dedicated linux distros like Gallium OS targeting chromebook devices specifically but if you look at the compatibility chart it's support is very limited for anything newer than 2018. Even crouton compatibility wasn't satisfactory and I gave up and just went full google approved with Crostini.

TheDong 5y ago
> Not anymore they don't. I recently bought a chromebook .. but the bootloader is locked Every ChromeOS device I know of supports developer mode, and I was fairly sure google mandated it. Which device do you have which does not support developer mode?
- GloriousKoji 5y ago
  Acer 311 but any chromebook with an Intel Gemini Lake processor has a locked bootloader and bios. Developer Mode can be enabled but the most that gets is installing crouton which is still beholden to booting Chrome OS and using it's kernel.
  - TheDong 5y ago
    Oh, huh, indeed that seems to be more involved than just developer mode. That one supports CCD, so you can still "root" it, but instead of just enabling developer mode, you also have to connect a cable and go through a slightly more involved process. Fortunately, it's quite well documented: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform/ec/+/cr50_stab/docs/case_closed_debugging_cr50.md#ccd-open https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform/ec/+/c... It's still not fully locked since following the above doc should let you flash your own firmware
modeless 5y ago
You can't enable developer mode? What Chromebook is that?