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Most people would be unequivocally against slave concentration camps. Do not confuse lack of action with lack of caring. Effective action may require collectiv

Most people would be unequivocally against slave concentration camps. Do not confuse lack of action with lack of caring. Effective action may require collective action. But individually, most people care. Yet, collectively, they cannot seem to do anything meaningful. You are making a statement that is the definition of an ecological fallacy [0] The article you pointed out is hardly balanced. The access of journalists is heavily restricted. Naturally, any information that comes out from a standard news outlet with government sanctioned offices like Associated Press will sound like government propaganda. CCP will not let AP have access to any information that counters the narrative of the propaganda. For a different take on things, and an outlet that does journalism differently without official representation with CCP, have a look at this piece from VICE [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AYyUqrMuQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AYyUqrMuQ

trasz 5y ago
>Most people would be unequivocally against slave concentration camps. When they exist. We know they exist in the US (private prisons), but there are no reliable sources that confirm they still exist in China.
- network2592 5y ago
  - dirtyid 5y ago
    > silent if it happens in China. Seems like some people insist on being loud even when it doesn't happen in China. The entire mass internment propaganda drive was concocted on less media access to XJ than the what APNEWs article reporting of it's dismantling. China like most countries, are not US, they don't need to maintain forever prison industrial complexes. BTW the same western analysts that alleged mass internment in XJ also concluded that mass internment phase is over, with ~50k transferred to long term internment and masses back out with gen pop in an elevated security environment, but no longer interned. The persistent allegations now is that labour rural transfer programs that's been ongoing for 20+ years throughout the country is somehow coerced labour when there's no to weak evidence.
  - trasz 5y ago
    No idea about Wumaos, in the west it might have been popularised by the Bible ("a beam in ones eye"). Still, pointing out that the accuser is doing it simply to deflect attention from much worse crimes they have committed seems universal.
- jimbob45 5y ago
  Private prisons are well on their way to extinction in America [0]. They're hardly the same issue they were in the 90s. [0]https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/breaking-down-bidens-order-eliminate-doj-private-prison-contracts https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/brea...
  - network2592 5y ago
    The "look at your own backyard first" is a common technique used by Wumao [0]. It is used to reduce the force of any criticism of CCP. Human rights are universal and know no national borders [1]. That being said, thanks for qualifying the often repeated statement in this thread about US prisons. Surely, more needs to be done. That does not mean we need to be silent about Xinjiang slave concentration camps. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29893724 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29893724 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29893855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29893855
- design-material 5y ago
  There are numerous reliable sources that have confirmed the existence of Chinese Concentration Camps. Whether you dismiss them is up to you, but the fact remains that numerous sources have reported on the existence of Chinese Concentration Camps.
- vorpalhex 5y ago
  We have satellite photos, eye witness testimony and even the Chinese government admits the facilities are there but has some nonsense about the people there choosing to be in a barbed wire facility with armed guards. Are you really suggesting keeping criminals who have had a trial and been found guilty by a jury of their peers is at all the same as a genocidal racial based campaign to remove an ethnic minority? [1] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_internment_camps https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_internment_camps [2] - https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/02/asia/xinjiang-china-karakax-document-intl-hnk/ https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/02/asia/xinjiang-china-... [3] - https://www.rand.org/blog/rand-review/2021/04/chinas-disappeared-uyghurs-what-satellite-images-reveal.html https://www.rand.org/blog/rand-review/2021/04/chinas-disappe... [4] - https://2017-2021.state.gov/ccpabuses https://2017-2021.state.gov/ccpabuses [5] - https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/chinas-repression-uyghurs-xinjiang https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/chinas-repression-uyghurs-x...
  - trasz 5y ago
    I'm sorry, but your state media lied to you again: nobody is claiming those institutions don't exist. They do exist - and they are mostly similar to western youth correctional facilities. (Except in China you can't get imprisoned there simply because you wealthy parents wish so - differently from the US, where the "troubled teen camps" are a proper industry.)
    - vorpalhex 5y ago
      Sure, every country on earth keeps their ethnic minorities in a barbed wire facility where they can't leave and are kept under watch by armed guards. Yes, very normal. Nothing to see here. Ignore the DOZENS of facilities with tens of thousands of inmates who have stories of forced sterilization.
      - trasz 5y ago
        This description matches American prisons pretty well. Of course US puts many more people there.
- 1024core 5y ago
  You most likely don't care, but if you want to be educated, here are some Vice documentaries: https://www.vice.com/en/topic/uighur https://www.vice.com/en/topic/uighur
  - network2592 5y ago
    Parent comment may not care. But just wanted to thank you for the link. Had just seen one documentary piece on VICE. I was not aware of these other pieces.
    - trasz 5y ago
      - network2592 5y ago
        My comment is at the top of this thread. So naturally, I have made a genuine effort to reply to replies. You constantly try to debase the conversation. Someone even reposted your comments to highlight how disingenuous your comments are [0]. Others have repeatedly pointed out how your comments have nothing to do with the current subject matter [1] or are simply regurgitating CCP talking points [2]. Clearly, engaging with your comments is not constructive. You are not interested in a genuine conversation. You attempt to deflate a potentially constructive conversation thread at every turn and trigger a flame war. But it is a testament to Hacker News that by and large, the community has recognized your comments and efforts to derail the conversation for what they are. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29894558 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29894558 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29893838 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29893838 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29896092 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29896092 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29893832 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29893832
      - dang 5y ago
        Please stop perpetuating flamewars on Hacker News. We've had to ask you this many times before. Eventually we ban such accounts. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

trasz 5y ago

>Most people would be unequivocally against slave concentration camps. When they exist. We know they exist in the US (private prisons), but there are no reliable sources that confirm they still exist in China.

network2592 5y ago
- dirtyid 5y ago
  > silent if it happens in China. Seems like some people insist on being loud even when it doesn't happen in China. The entire mass internment propaganda drive was concocted on less media access to XJ than the what APNEWs article reporting of it's dismantling. China like most countries, are not US, they don't need to maintain forever prison industrial complexes. BTW the same western analysts that alleged mass internment in XJ also concluded that mass internment phase is over, with ~50k transferred to long term internment and masses back out with gen pop in an elevated security environment, but no longer interned. The persistent allegations now is that labour rural transfer programs that's been ongoing for 20+ years throughout the country is somehow coerced labour when there's no to weak evidence.
- trasz 5y ago
  No idea about Wumaos, in the west it might have been popularised by the Bible ("a beam in ones eye"). Still, pointing out that the accuser is doing it simply to deflect attention from much worse crimes they have committed seems universal.
jimbob45 5y ago
Private prisons are well on their way to extinction in America [0]. They're hardly the same issue they were in the 90s. [0]https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/breaking-down-bidens-order-eliminate-doj-private-prison-contracts https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/brea...
- network2592 5y ago
  The "look at your own backyard first" is a common technique used by Wumao [0]. It is used to reduce the force of any criticism of CCP. Human rights are universal and know no national borders [1]. That being said, thanks for qualifying the often repeated statement in this thread about US prisons. Surely, more needs to be done. That does not mean we need to be silent about Xinjiang slave concentration camps. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29893724 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29893724 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29893855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29893855
design-material 5y ago
There are numerous reliable sources that have confirmed the existence of Chinese Concentration Camps. Whether you dismiss them is up to you, but the fact remains that numerous sources have reported on the existence of Chinese Concentration Camps.
vorpalhex 5y ago
We have satellite photos, eye witness testimony and even the Chinese government admits the facilities are there but has some nonsense about the people there choosing to be in a barbed wire facility with armed guards. Are you really suggesting keeping criminals who have had a trial and been found guilty by a jury of their peers is at all the same as a genocidal racial based campaign to remove an ethnic minority? [1] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_internment_camps https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_internment_camps [2] - https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/02/asia/xinjiang-china-karakax-document-intl-hnk/ https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/02/asia/xinjiang-china-... [3] - https://www.rand.org/blog/rand-review/2021/04/chinas-disappeared-uyghurs-what-satellite-images-reveal.html https://www.rand.org/blog/rand-review/2021/04/chinas-disappe... [4] - https://2017-2021.state.gov/ccpabuses https://2017-2021.state.gov/ccpabuses [5] - https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/chinas-repression-uyghurs-xinjiang https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/chinas-repression-uyghurs-x...
- trasz 5y ago
  I'm sorry, but your state media lied to you again: nobody is claiming those institutions don't exist. They do exist - and they are mostly similar to western youth correctional facilities. (Except in China you can't get imprisoned there simply because you wealthy parents wish so - differently from the US, where the "troubled teen camps" are a proper industry.)
  - vorpalhex 5y ago
    Sure, every country on earth keeps their ethnic minorities in a barbed wire facility where they can't leave and are kept under watch by armed guards. Yes, very normal. Nothing to see here. Ignore the DOZENS of facilities with tens of thousands of inmates who have stories of forced sterilization.
    - trasz 5y ago
      This description matches American prisons pretty well. Of course US puts many more people there.
1024core 5y ago
You most likely don't care, but if you want to be educated, here are some Vice documentaries: https://www.vice.com/en/topic/uighur https://www.vice.com/en/topic/uighur
- network2592 5y ago
  Parent comment may not care. But just wanted to thank you for the link. Had just seen one documentary piece on VICE. I was not aware of these other pieces.
  - trasz 5y ago
    - network2592 5y ago
      My comment is at the top of this thread. So naturally, I have made a genuine effort to reply to replies. You constantly try to debase the conversation. Someone even reposted your comments to highlight how disingenuous your comments are [0]. Others have repeatedly pointed out how your comments have nothing to do with the current subject matter [1] or are simply regurgitating CCP talking points [2]. Clearly, engaging with your comments is not constructive. You are not interested in a genuine conversation. You attempt to deflate a potentially constructive conversation thread at every turn and trigger a flame war. But it is a testament to Hacker News that by and large, the community has recognized your comments and efforts to derail the conversation for what they are. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29894558 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29894558 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29893838 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29893838 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29896092 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29896092 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29893832 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29893832
    - dang 5y ago
      Please stop perpetuating flamewars on Hacker News. We've had to ask you this many times before. Eventually we ban such accounts. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.