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Name and shame. We need to divest our manufacturing from China. Perhaps by exposing such practices and nagging hypocrytical companies we can make divestment h

Name and shame. We need to divest our manufacturing from China. Perhaps by exposing such practices and nagging hypocrytical companies we can make divestment happen sooner? Twitter mobs could be used for good once.

freemint 5y ago
When I read: "We need to divest our manufacturing from China." I parse it as: "We need war with China". Because soldiers don't cross borders goods cross.
- nieksand 5y ago
  Weird. There were goods crossing between the Ukraine and Russia, but that didn't stop soldiers from crossing the border and occupying Crimea. Perhaps it was the exception that proves the rule.
  - freemint 5y ago
    This phrase was not meant to be taken literally and more supposed to be understood as "if peoples do engage in trading that makes wars between those nation states way less likely." It was a cute phrase but I see how it might lead to missunderstandings. Thanks for pointing that out. As for whether that more elaborate position applies to the Russian-Ukranian situation. Yes it does The Russians have not declared war on Ukraine. They are engaging in a purely illegal invasion. Ukraine has not declared war on Russia and has not attempt any occupation of Russian territory.
Invictus0 5y ago
Divestment will be a years long process, and it will only happen if we publish a schedule of annually increasing tariffs across all Chinese imports.
- FridayoLeary 5y ago
  Perhaps it wasn't such a stupid idea after all....
  - creato 5y ago
    It wasn't. What was stupid was waging a trade war with Europe at the same time.
- echelon 5y ago
  Or tax incentivize final manufacture of finished goods in the US for high value and strategic goods (semiconductors, electronics, mechanical equipment, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, agricultural equipment, etc.) Make a policy like, """ Companies that onshore will pay the following taxes for the next 25 years if they follow our onshoring program: company profits: 0% tax rate CEO capital gains: 1% tax rate shareholder capital gains: 2% tax rate Also, companies can transfer international profits back to the US at a rate of up to $10B a year with no taxation. """ First make it apply to 10% or some low critical threshold of products, but then ramp it up annually. Over ten years, the percentage should be closer to 50% for companies to remain in compliance and to receive the tax advantaged status. Don't punish China and make them angry. Reward US manufacturing activities handsomely. Call your legislators and ask for this. They'll be into the tax thing. An interesting side effect: companies that manufacture in the US will be worth significantly more. They can use their valuation to make continued investments: loans, acquisitions, hiring, etc.
  - freemint 5y ago
    This is call a subsidy and will really mess up the internal labour market. Not sure it would be legal WTO rules.
    - echelon 5y ago
      That does seem to be a sticking point. Perhaps a new trade agreement could be made amongst key trading partners? China would probably get mad, but if China is able to keep foreign firms out or put them at a disadvantage, then we should be able to provide benefits to our own domestic firms. There need to be motivations for companies to do more on our own soil.
q3k 5y ago
> We need to divest our manufacturing from China. Not gonna happen until you get rid of consumerism. People want to buy cheap shit, it gives their lives meaning.
- me_me_me 5y ago
  Its not (just) that anymore, china is the new market. The new and huge revenue stream. You need to play by chinese rules or they close their market to you. Big corporations are now addicted to this opium and cant simply go back to not selling to chinese markets.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    401k owners and governments with underfunded pensions are also addicted to the opium.
  - dclowd9901 5y ago
    With the expectation from American companies to always be growing, it’s inevitable for them to end up kowtowing to the Chinese market, even at the expense of all other markets. I would like to see recognition from American shareholders that not only is expanding to China bad for the product but it also undermines our cultural values vis a vis problematic manufacturing.
- axiosgunnar 5y ago
  I said divest from a authoritorian communist regime that grew too big, not get rid of consumerism. There is Vietnam, Africa etc. We can still have our IoT toasters, just manufactures elsewhere.
999900000999 5y ago
- rastapasta42 5y ago
  Big difference is that Uyghurs are not rapists and murderers, and they didn't commit crimes. What's wrong with prison labor in US? Those criminals committed acts deemed bad for society. We could either pay for them to stay in a fancy hotel, or make them pay back debt to society. This is not comparable to imprisoning people based on ethnicity.
  - sdk16420 5y ago
    What is a crime depends on local legislation. Being homosexual is a crime in many countries, hence there is still nothing wrong with 'criminals' performing forced labour?
  - mrweasel 5y ago
    Aren’t people in prison to get rehabilitated? They don’t really repay anything to society by working for pennies for a prison run by a private company. In fact you could argue that prisoners are stealing job from others by working for next to nothing.
    - 999900000999 5y ago
      You also create strange perverse incentives to keep as many people in prison as possible. And those people in prison working for pennies per day ,as you've alluded, take jobs from free people. If you want to see peak absurdity, California has legions of prisoner firefighters. But you can be a firefighter with a felony on your record, so while the state of California is fine with paying them peanuts for risking their lives, it won't make them full-fledged firefighters once they're released. If any other country was doing this, our various propaganda agencies would be crying foul.
- propertymagnate 5y ago
  Maybe let's start with the easy stuff then, given that it's genocide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide
323 5y ago
> Twitter mobs could be used for good once. But you need your iPhone 13 Max (I know, Apple, not Intel) to virtue signal on Twitter though. It's much easier to just complain about Western colonialism or something.
president 5y ago
> We need to divest our manufacturing from China. You would need the Wall St, corporate globalists, and their backers on board with that, which is impossible given that they own all of the dominant American politicians and institutions

freemint 5y ago

When I read: "We need to divest our manufacturing from China." I parse it as: "We need war with China". Because soldiers don't cross borders goods cross.

nieksand 5y ago
Weird. There were goods crossing between the Ukraine and Russia, but that didn't stop soldiers from crossing the border and occupying Crimea. Perhaps it was the exception that proves the rule.
- freemint 5y ago
  This phrase was not meant to be taken literally and more supposed to be understood as "if peoples do engage in trading that makes wars between those nation states way less likely." It was a cute phrase but I see how it might lead to missunderstandings. Thanks for pointing that out. As for whether that more elaborate position applies to the Russian-Ukranian situation. Yes it does The Russians have not declared war on Ukraine. They are engaging in a purely illegal invasion. Ukraine has not declared war on Russia and has not attempt any occupation of Russian territory.

Invictus0 5y ago

Divestment will be a years long process, and it will only happen if we publish a schedule of annually increasing tariffs across all Chinese imports.

FridayoLeary 5y ago
Perhaps it wasn't such a stupid idea after all....
- creato 5y ago
  It wasn't. What was stupid was waging a trade war with Europe at the same time.
echelon 5y ago
Or tax incentivize final manufacture of finished goods in the US for high value and strategic goods (semiconductors, electronics, mechanical equipment, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, agricultural equipment, etc.) Make a policy like, """ Companies that onshore will pay the following taxes for the next 25 years if they follow our onshoring program: company profits: 0% tax rate CEO capital gains: 1% tax rate shareholder capital gains: 2% tax rate Also, companies can transfer international profits back to the US at a rate of up to $10B a year with no taxation. """ First make it apply to 10% or some low critical threshold of products, but then ramp it up annually. Over ten years, the percentage should be closer to 50% for companies to remain in compliance and to receive the tax advantaged status. Don't punish China and make them angry. Reward US manufacturing activities handsomely. Call your legislators and ask for this. They'll be into the tax thing. An interesting side effect: companies that manufacture in the US will be worth significantly more. They can use their valuation to make continued investments: loans, acquisitions, hiring, etc.
- freemint 5y ago
  This is call a subsidy and will really mess up the internal labour market. Not sure it would be legal WTO rules.
  - echelon 5y ago
    That does seem to be a sticking point. Perhaps a new trade agreement could be made amongst key trading partners? China would probably get mad, but if China is able to keep foreign firms out or put them at a disadvantage, then we should be able to provide benefits to our own domestic firms. There need to be motivations for companies to do more on our own soil.

q3k 5y ago

> We need to divest our manufacturing from China. Not gonna happen until you get rid of consumerism. People want to buy cheap shit, it gives their lives meaning.

me_me_me 5y ago
Its not (just) that anymore, china is the new market. The new and huge revenue stream. You need to play by chinese rules or they close their market to you. Big corporations are now addicted to this opium and cant simply go back to not selling to chinese markets.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  401k owners and governments with underfunded pensions are also addicted to the opium.
- dclowd9901 5y ago
  With the expectation from American companies to always be growing, it’s inevitable for them to end up kowtowing to the Chinese market, even at the expense of all other markets. I would like to see recognition from American shareholders that not only is expanding to China bad for the product but it also undermines our cultural values vis a vis problematic manufacturing.
axiosgunnar 5y ago
I said divest from a authoritorian communist regime that grew too big, not get rid of consumerism. There is Vietnam, Africa etc. We can still have our IoT toasters, just manufactures elsewhere.

999900000999 5y ago

rastapasta42 5y ago
Big difference is that Uyghurs are not rapists and murderers, and they didn't commit crimes. What's wrong with prison labor in US? Those criminals committed acts deemed bad for society. We could either pay for them to stay in a fancy hotel, or make them pay back debt to society. This is not comparable to imprisoning people based on ethnicity.
- sdk16420 5y ago
  What is a crime depends on local legislation. Being homosexual is a crime in many countries, hence there is still nothing wrong with 'criminals' performing forced labour?
- mrweasel 5y ago
  Aren’t people in prison to get rehabilitated? They don’t really repay anything to society by working for pennies for a prison run by a private company. In fact you could argue that prisoners are stealing job from others by working for next to nothing.
  - 999900000999 5y ago
    You also create strange perverse incentives to keep as many people in prison as possible. And those people in prison working for pennies per day ,as you've alluded, take jobs from free people. If you want to see peak absurdity, California has legions of prisoner firefighters. But you can be a firefighter with a felony on your record, so while the state of California is fine with paying them peanuts for risking their lives, it won't make them full-fledged firefighters once they're released. If any other country was doing this, our various propaganda agencies would be crying foul.
propertymagnate 5y ago
Maybe let's start with the easy stuff then, given that it's genocide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide

323 5y ago

> Twitter mobs could be used for good once. But you need your iPhone 13 Max (I know, Apple, not Intel) to virtue signal on Twitter though. It's much easier to just complain about Western colonialism or something.

president 5y ago

> We need to divest our manufacturing from China. You would need the Wall St, corporate globalists, and their backers on board with that, which is impossible given that they own all of the dominant American politicians and institutions