5 ms·

I live in the heart of south Minneapolis. I really doubt the claim that this is for organized crime for some kind of financial gain. There was an organized ring

I live in the heart of south Minneapolis. I really doubt the claim that this is for organized crime for some kind of financial gain. There was an organized ring last year targeting high value cars, but it got busted pretty easily. From the news I’ve seen, it’s almost always joyriding teenagers and stolen vehicles used to commit some other crime. Uber/Lyft drivers are specifically targeted because they can be easily lured to a semi-remote location by the apps. But multiple criminals using that tactic doesn’t make it “organized crime.” It would make sense that an app driver knows other drivers who have been carjacked, but this M.O. isn’t exclusive to Minneapolis. Crime is still really low here. I live at a dodgy intersection with major bus lines that brings a lot of characters—good and ‘bad’—around. I don’t worry about walking around even at night. I don’t worry about driving anywhere in this city, even in the areas where carjackings have been “up” (which I travel through frequently in order to reach the now infamous Lake Street Target). Anyway, fear-mongering comments or anecdotes from people who visit here don’t really express the lived experience of people living in Minneapolis. :)

ahelwer 5y ago
People & especially the media love to play up this stuff. I lived two blocks away from Seattle's CHAZ during the 2020 BLM protests. Watching media coverage of my area compared to the actual experience of walking around and living there was a ridiculous juxtaposition. Even people I know who disapproved of the protests commented on the difference uneasily. I had numerous people from the east side of Lake Washington refuse to come pick up things I was selling on craigslist because they thought they would be mobbed and their car torched or something. Fear sells and there are a lot of people who want to sell it.
- slibhb 5y ago
  Is wikipedia inaccurate? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Occupied_Protest#During_the_zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Occupied_Protest#... Your personal experience may be less relevant than actual incidents in which people were shot.
  - ahelwer 5y ago
    Yes, and in the GP we saw there were actual instances of people having their car stolen. This does not mean it was some violent wasteland as the media painted.
    - slibhb 5y ago
      Right wingers want to paint it as a violent wasteland. Left wingers want to paint it as a promising post-police utopian experiment. Rhetoric aside, there are empirical questions that can be answered.
- throwawaysea 5y ago
  I don’t know. On the one hand I get what you’re saying, that CHAZ was “peaceful” during the day in that it resembled a sort of low-tier art fair. On the other hand, it was an incredibly lawless hijacking of public property. Daily, thousands of people who use those roads or surrounding amenities (parks, businesses) were forced to find alternatives that took longer and were more crowded, right in the middle of the pandemic. This re-routing included public transit and emergency vehicles. This type of violent takeover can’t be justified by surface-level “peace” during the day in my opinion. We should also remember that people died in CHAZ and its immediate surrounding areas. For example Travis Berge, who was a well-known repeat offender featured in the documentary “Seattle is Dying” (https://komonews.com/news/local/komo-news-special-seattle-is-dying https://komonews.com/news/local/komo-news-special-seattle-is...), killed his girlfriend there (https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2020/09/17/blm-chaz-protester-suspected-of-murdering-girlfriend-it-didnt-end-well-n254639 https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2020/09/17/blm-chaz-proteste...). The father of another man who was shot and killed there is now suing the city for negligently abandoning that area (https://www.foxnews.com/us/seattle-lawsuit-chop-chaz-zone-shooting-death https://www.foxnews.com/us/seattle-lawsuit-chop-chaz-zone-sh...). Not to mention, CHAZ set the tone for how the city has been governed and its politics thereafter. In 2020 there were near-daily blockades of roads and tunnels, none of which were legal, and yet there was little consequence for any of the rioting. For example, one article noted that out of 261 rioters, only 8 faced charges, and exactly zero those faced any real consequence subsequently (https://komonews.com/news/local/city-attorney-charges-brought-in-8-out-of-261-protest-related-arrests-in-seattle https://komonews.com/news/local/city-attorney-charges-brough...). Meanwhile the city police was forced to build a concrete barricade around their main police station because of the lawlessness and city leadership forcing them to not take necessary actions. It got to the point where BLM protesters were setting white people’s houses on fire when they were sleeping in it (https://thepostmillennial.com/seattle-blm-activist-arrested-for-arson-and-burglary https://thepostmillennial.com/seattle-blm-activist-arrested-...), and staged protests outside white neighbors’ homes demanding they leave the neighborhood (https://nypost.com/2020/08/14/seattle-blm-protesters-demand-white-people-give-up-their-homes/ https://nypost.com/2020/08/14/seattle-blm-protesters-demand-...). All this, became normalized and accepted by city government, in part because of CHAZ. Fast forward to the present day and we see how much worse things have become. Hundreds of police officers have quit because of defunding and bad policy. Most will never come back no matter what bonuses are paid. The city has roughly half the number of police officers the average city would have per capita. Crime is everywhere. Businesses are shutting down due to it - look at the International District for a taste, where ironically minority business owners are the ones suffering. Trash is everywhere. RV ranchers are everywhere. Tents can be found in numerous parks and green spaces, leaving behind trash and needles. Property crime, like bike thefts, car breakins, car thefts, burglaries, and so on are common to the point no one bothers to even report them, since there’s no one to investigate and insurance requires a deductible anyhow. You might call it a ridiculous juxtaposition. But CHAZ was exactly the harbinger and enabler that those complaining about it thought it would be. Seattle was a very safe and very clean city less than 10 years ago. I don’t recognize the city as it is today.
DarkContinent 5y ago
I live in Minneapolis too, and while I absolutely agree with you that Minneapolis is still a very safe city, there's no doubt that crime has gone up in the last year--for example, the murder rate in the Twin Cities has definitely gone up: https://www.axios.com/local/twin-cities/2021/12/09/st-paul-homicide-record-minneapolis-violence https://www.axios.com/local/twin-cities/2021/12/09/st-paul-h...
DaniloDias 5y ago
bequanna 5y ago
I lived in Downtown Minneapolis about 10 years ago in an "upscale" loft building. This was on the outside ring of development and somewhat near a lower income neighborhood. I was there for 18 months and during that time there were multiple home invasions, break ins, and one I personally had several very disturbing encounters. Now, when I revisit that same area it has further gentrified and feels much safer. However, I still have many friends in Minneapolis and without exception they are all very negative on the overall direction of the city. It's been particularity intersting to watch friends of mine in that area who I considered pretty far left start spouting more and more "conservative" talking points after the riots and as they view their quality of life deteriorating.
Spooky23 5y ago
I live in another city, but there has been significant changes in certain types of crime patterns. It’s not “organized” crime in The Godfather or gang sense, but it’s organized loosely on the internet and would be criminals basically have access to “best practices” that were only available in a truly organized crime org in the past. Nothing like growing up in 80s NYC, but property crime in my city is way up, and police either aren’t taking reports or people don’t bother. The little league I’m on the board had the wall of a storage shed cut open and turf equipment stolen. The police took a report and the video and filed it away. Shady people know what the police will arrest for, and what the DA will prosecute; they operate in the fringes. Basically if it’s a burglary at a house or assault the police respond and prosecute. Other thefts don’t even warrant a report unless there is an insurance angle. In general, the stupid crime done by drug addicts is basically not on the radar. 10 years ago, guys robbing sheds and plundering the little league would have prompted a mini-task force response. Today, the paperwork to book the guy would last longer that his time in custody.

ahelwer 5y ago

People & especially the media love to play up this stuff. I lived two blocks away from Seattle's CHAZ during the 2020 BLM protests. Watching media coverage of my area compared to the actual experience of walking around and living there was a ridiculous juxtaposition. Even people I know who disapproved of the protests commented on the difference uneasily. I had numerous people from the east side of Lake Washington refuse to come pick up things I was selling on craigslist because they thought they would be mobbed and their car torched or something. Fear sells and there are a lot of people who want to sell it.

slibhb 5y ago
Is wikipedia inaccurate? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Occupied_Protest#During_the_zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Occupied_Protest#... Your personal experience may be less relevant than actual incidents in which people were shot.
- ahelwer 5y ago
  Yes, and in the GP we saw there were actual instances of people having their car stolen. This does not mean it was some violent wasteland as the media painted.
  - slibhb 5y ago
    Right wingers want to paint it as a violent wasteland. Left wingers want to paint it as a promising post-police utopian experiment. Rhetoric aside, there are empirical questions that can be answered.
throwawaysea 5y ago
I don’t know. On the one hand I get what you’re saying, that CHAZ was “peaceful” during the day in that it resembled a sort of low-tier art fair. On the other hand, it was an incredibly lawless hijacking of public property. Daily, thousands of people who use those roads or surrounding amenities (parks, businesses) were forced to find alternatives that took longer and were more crowded, right in the middle of the pandemic. This re-routing included public transit and emergency vehicles. This type of violent takeover can’t be justified by surface-level “peace” during the day in my opinion. We should also remember that people died in CHAZ and its immediate surrounding areas. For example Travis Berge, who was a well-known repeat offender featured in the documentary “Seattle is Dying” (https://komonews.com/news/local/komo-news-special-seattle-is-dying https://komonews.com/news/local/komo-news-special-seattle-is...), killed his girlfriend there (https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2020/09/17/blm-chaz-protester-suspected-of-murdering-girlfriend-it-didnt-end-well-n254639 https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2020/09/17/blm-chaz-proteste...). The father of another man who was shot and killed there is now suing the city for negligently abandoning that area (https://www.foxnews.com/us/seattle-lawsuit-chop-chaz-zone-shooting-death https://www.foxnews.com/us/seattle-lawsuit-chop-chaz-zone-sh...). Not to mention, CHAZ set the tone for how the city has been governed and its politics thereafter. In 2020 there were near-daily blockades of roads and tunnels, none of which were legal, and yet there was little consequence for any of the rioting. For example, one article noted that out of 261 rioters, only 8 faced charges, and exactly zero those faced any real consequence subsequently (https://komonews.com/news/local/city-attorney-charges-brought-in-8-out-of-261-protest-related-arrests-in-seattle https://komonews.com/news/local/city-attorney-charges-brough...). Meanwhile the city police was forced to build a concrete barricade around their main police station because of the lawlessness and city leadership forcing them to not take necessary actions. It got to the point where BLM protesters were setting white people’s houses on fire when they were sleeping in it (https://thepostmillennial.com/seattle-blm-activist-arrested-for-arson-and-burglary https://thepostmillennial.com/seattle-blm-activist-arrested-...), and staged protests outside white neighbors’ homes demanding they leave the neighborhood (https://nypost.com/2020/08/14/seattle-blm-protesters-demand-white-people-give-up-their-homes/ https://nypost.com/2020/08/14/seattle-blm-protesters-demand-...). All this, became normalized and accepted by city government, in part because of CHAZ. Fast forward to the present day and we see how much worse things have become. Hundreds of police officers have quit because of defunding and bad policy. Most will never come back no matter what bonuses are paid. The city has roughly half the number of police officers the average city would have per capita. Crime is everywhere. Businesses are shutting down due to it - look at the International District for a taste, where ironically minority business owners are the ones suffering. Trash is everywhere. RV ranchers are everywhere. Tents can be found in numerous parks and green spaces, leaving behind trash and needles. Property crime, like bike thefts, car breakins, car thefts, burglaries, and so on are common to the point no one bothers to even report them, since there’s no one to investigate and insurance requires a deductible anyhow. You might call it a ridiculous juxtaposition. But CHAZ was exactly the harbinger and enabler that those complaining about it thought it would be. Seattle was a very safe and very clean city less than 10 years ago. I don’t recognize the city as it is today.

DarkContinent 5y ago

I live in Minneapolis too, and while I absolutely agree with you that Minneapolis is still a very safe city, there's no doubt that crime has gone up in the last year--for example, the murder rate in the Twin Cities has definitely gone up: https://www.axios.com/local/twin-cities/2021/12/09/st-paul-homicide-record-minneapolis-violence https://www.axios.com/local/twin-cities/2021/12/09/st-paul-h...

DaniloDias 5y ago

bequanna 5y ago

I lived in Downtown Minneapolis about 10 years ago in an "upscale" loft building. This was on the outside ring of development and somewhat near a lower income neighborhood. I was there for 18 months and during that time there were multiple home invasions, break ins, and one I personally had several very disturbing encounters. Now, when I revisit that same area it has further gentrified and feels much safer. However, I still have many friends in Minneapolis and without exception they are all very negative on the overall direction of the city. It's been particularity intersting to watch friends of mine in that area who I considered pretty far left start spouting more and more "conservative" talking points after the riots and as they view their quality of life deteriorating.

Spooky23 5y ago

I live in another city, but there has been significant changes in certain types of crime patterns. It’s not “organized” crime in The Godfather or gang sense, but it’s organized loosely on the internet and would be criminals basically have access to “best practices” that were only available in a truly organized crime org in the past. Nothing like growing up in 80s NYC, but property crime in my city is way up, and police either aren’t taking reports or people don’t bother. The little league I’m on the board had the wall of a storage shed cut open and turf equipment stolen. The police took a report and the video and filed it away. Shady people know what the police will arrest for, and what the DA will prosecute; they operate in the fringes. Basically if it’s a burglary at a house or assault the police respond and prosecute. Other thefts don’t even warrant a report unless there is an insurance angle. In general, the stupid crime done by drug addicts is basically not on the radar. 10 years ago, guys robbing sheds and plundering the little league would have prompted a mini-task force response. Today, the paperwork to book the guy would last longer that his time in custody.