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A typical Java project has way more complexity (and confusion and sadness and pain) than your typical node.js project in the enterprise world. I have stomach cr

A typical Java project has way more complexity (and confusion and sadness and pain) than your typical node.js project in the enterprise world. I have stomach cramps thinking about the stuff my eyes have seen. .NET is not innocent either. For PHP, just look at the Drupal, Joomla and Wordpress codebases to see how many ways there are to include files. For a current example, see the hate Laravel receives on how it does DI from Symfony-likers. There's also the Laminas (Zen) crowd going all-Java. If something is popular, there WILL be many ways to do the same thing. Look at how Python is evolving.

mschuster91 5y ago
> A typical Java project has way more complexity (and confusion and sadness and pain) than your typical node.js project in the enterprise world. Personally, in my career I've seen and worked with projects in SAP, Java (Tomcat), .NET, PHP and various JS-based projects - of all these, the JS projects had the most variety of bullshit (although SAP still gets the cake for "stuff I'll never willingly work with again" simply because how mind-boggling the entire environment is). At least it's easy enough to get a bunch of Java developers to agree on what package manager and build tool they will be using - it will mostly be Maven and that's it. For a nodejs project, you will first have to decide on the framework to choose, then on the build tool because not every framework works with every build tool, then you will lose a lot of time until Webpack finally does what you want, and in a year half the libraries you use will be unsupported.
- egeozcan 5y ago
  Are you sure? There's gradle and others. Also which server? Wildfly, jboss, jetty, glassfish, soemthing else? Which java distribution? Perhaps you want to use vertx, tapestry, undertow instead of good old Spring? Maybe Grails? Which testing framework? Some people love their JSF (yes!), is it still really, like for real supported? Should you use JSP? I mean from configuration to configuration so much changes that I don't touch undockerized Java projects. It's just too much work. In one case one experienced Java dev struggled to get me a working dev env for a week. Even IDE extensions sometimes play a role in the build in Java world. Give me a break.

mschuster91 5y ago

> A typical Java project has way more complexity (and confusion and sadness and pain) than your typical node.js project in the enterprise world. Personally, in my career I've seen and worked with projects in SAP, Java (Tomcat), .NET, PHP and various JS-based projects - of all these, the JS projects had the most variety of bullshit (although SAP still gets the cake for "stuff I'll never willingly work with again" simply because how mind-boggling the entire environment is). At least it's easy enough to get a bunch of Java developers to agree on what package manager and build tool they will be using - it will mostly be Maven and that's it. For a nodejs project, you will first have to decide on the framework to choose, then on the build tool because not every framework works with every build tool, then you will lose a lot of time until Webpack finally does what you want, and in a year half the libraries you use will be unsupported.

egeozcan 5y ago
Are you sure? There's gradle and others. Also which server? Wildfly, jboss, jetty, glassfish, soemthing else? Which java distribution? Perhaps you want to use vertx, tapestry, undertow instead of good old Spring? Maybe Grails? Which testing framework? Some people love their JSF (yes!), is it still really, like for real supported? Should you use JSP? I mean from configuration to configuration so much changes that I don't touch undockerized Java projects. It's just too much work. In one case one experienced Java dev struggled to get me a working dev env for a week. Even IDE extensions sometimes play a role in the build in Java world. Give me a break.