4 ms·

Making mozzarella was a real 'been there, done that' kinda thing. It's satisfying work, but it consumes so much milk it's not really economically viable and the

by ddek 5y ago

Making mozzarella was a real 'been there, done that' kinda thing. It's satisfying work, but it consumes so much milk it's not really economically viable and the milk I'm using isn't as good for cheesemaking as the better producers. I'd do more of it, but my office in Liverpool Street (London) is right next to an Eataly that make fresh (made in front of you) buffalo mozzarella at a fair price. (A lot of the talk in pizza making circles is about using very fresh mozzarella, based mainly on 'tradition'. Nathan Mhyrvold just published a book on pizza that seems to show a counter-argument. I'm not paying £300 for a cookbook without really knowing it's worth it though, so I'll wait for the British Library to get it.) I think other fresh cheeses could be worthwhile. A similar process to mozzarella makes queso oaxahaca, which isn't easily found here. The big difference is oaxaca is stretched into an extremely long thread, then knotted, then dried. I wouldn't want to make hard cheeses at home, the food poisoning risk is way too high for me.

zarzavat 5y ago
Can you go into more detail on the food poisoning risk for hard cheeses? I'd quite like to make some hard cheese, but I'd rather not die.
- derbOac 5y ago
  Maybe not what you were asking, but pregnant women are often recommended by public health systems to avoid raw milk and soft cheeses. Aged hard cheese, even raw milk cheese, is often exempted because the risk is much lower, and goes down with the age of the cheese. Aged cheeses are too acidic and dry for most pathogens to grow. https://111.wales.nhs.uk/livewell/pregnancy/FoodstoAvoidHW/ https://111.wales.nhs.uk/livewell/pregnancy/FoodstoAvoidHW/
cheese_goddess 5y ago
> I wouldn't want to make hard cheeses at home, the food poisoning risk is way too high for me. Why do you say that? Hard cheese is much safer than soft cheese. Most instances of food poisoining are caused by fresh, soft cheese. Hard cheese is normally aged for a few months after which most pathogens (and most microbes in general) die off for lack of nutrients and moisture. Actually that's the mechanism by which cheese develops flavor as it ages: microorganisms in cheese die off and their ruptured cells release enzymes that interact with the proteins and fats in cheese to create new flavors. In general, it's a very good idea to be careful when making cheese at home. Your first line of defense against food poisoning from homemade cheese is pasteurisation. Food poisoning risk from pasteurised milk products is going to be very low unless you're really careless. Your other first line of defense is to have scrupulus sanitation practices. Sanitise every surface that will come into contact with cheese, or with anything that will come into contact with cheese. Boil all implements that can be boiled for at least 15' (that won't sterilise them quite, but it's close). Wash thoroughly everything you can't boil. Use separate utensils and receptacles for cheesemaking and separate ones for cooking to avoid cross-contamination. Use brushes rather than sponges for washing utensils and also keep them separate to avoid cross-contamination. Use clean paper towels, or sterilise your cloth towels before each cheesemaking session. Wash your hands thoroughly with soap and warm water, duh, or use one-use gloves (preferrably sterilised) chaning them every time you handle cheese. That's my regime anyway! I'm also curious about your comment that making mozzarella consumes too much milk. Normally you should get about 10-15% yield with cow's milk mozzarella, depending on how you make it. Are you making it by directly adding acid to milk (like citric acid or vinegar etc) or are you doing it traditional style? I think the direct-acid method can have lower yields.
- MegaDeKay 5y ago
  Your sterilization method is solid, but it is quite in contrast to the linked article's recipe for blue cheese that makes holes in a block of blue cheese with a screwdriver sterilized in vodka!
  - cheese_goddess 5y ago
    Oh dear, really? I didn't read that part! Haha. Well, I guess if the vodka doesn't kill off the microbes at least they'll be your friends for buying them drinks XD
- kevinmchugh 5y ago
  Can you use a brewing sanitizer like Star-San? I don't know enough about the microbes here.
  - cheese_goddess 5y ago
    Yes, as far as I know Star-San is popular with home cheesemakers. I haven't used it, or similar products, but I probably should, actually, for the things I can't easily boil.
tda 5y ago
Unfortunately cheese just requires a lot of milk in general. That's why the CO2 footprint of cheese is quite a bit higher than e.g. chicken meat [1] and only slightly better than red meat. I have become a vegetarian largely because of the climate impact of meat production. And though I have limited my dairy consumption, I still consume a fair bit of cheese and chocolate and coffee :( [1] https://ourworldindata.org/carbon-footprint-food-methane https://ourworldindata.org/carbon-footprint-food-methane
simonebrunozzi 5y ago
This [0] is Nathan Mhyrvold's book on pizza that you are referring to. I'd agree that a $300 book sounds expensive. On the other side, I'm quite happy that someone as "crazy" as Nathan is willing to do this kind of work. [0]: https://modernistcuisine.com/books/modernist-pizza/ https://modernistcuisine.com/books/modernist-pizza/
- ddek 5y ago
  I can almost guarantee I'm going to buy it some time. It has impulse buy written all over it for me. (Yes, I own modernist cuisine. I've even used it.)
VoodooJuJu 5y ago
>I wouldn't want to make hard cheeses at home, the food poisoning risk is way too high for me. A lot of this "risk" people mention when it comes to traditional (ancient) food preservation techniques is a purely modern irrational-emotional perception, typically brought on by a once-in-a-while news report of some salmonella outbreak at an industrial-scale food manufacturer. I see this irrational fear in circles related to homebrewing, charcuterie, pickles/sauerkraut, and more. It's unfortunate because this fear often drives people to deviate from traditional methods in ways that cause the final product to lack desirable properties like flavor, longevity, and nutrition, and can drive them to create something actually harmful to their health (like carcinogenic nitrates/nitrites in charcuterie).

by ddek 5y ago

zarzavat 5y ago

Can you go into more detail on the food poisoning risk for hard cheeses? I'd quite like to make some hard cheese, but I'd rather not die.

derbOac 5y ago
Maybe not what you were asking, but pregnant women are often recommended by public health systems to avoid raw milk and soft cheeses. Aged hard cheese, even raw milk cheese, is often exempted because the risk is much lower, and goes down with the age of the cheese. Aged cheeses are too acidic and dry for most pathogens to grow. https://111.wales.nhs.uk/livewell/pregnancy/FoodstoAvoidHW/ https://111.wales.nhs.uk/livewell/pregnancy/FoodstoAvoidHW/

cheese_goddess 5y ago

> I wouldn't want to make hard cheeses at home, the food poisoning risk is way too high for me. Why do you say that? Hard cheese is much safer than soft cheese. Most instances of food poisoining are caused by fresh, soft cheese. Hard cheese is normally aged for a few months after which most pathogens (and most microbes in general) die off for lack of nutrients and moisture. Actually that's the mechanism by which cheese develops flavor as it ages: microorganisms in cheese die off and their ruptured cells release enzymes that interact with the proteins and fats in cheese to create new flavors. In general, it's a very good idea to be careful when making cheese at home. Your first line of defense against food poisoning from homemade cheese is pasteurisation. Food poisoning risk from pasteurised milk products is going to be very low unless you're really careless. Your other first line of defense is to have scrupulus sanitation practices. Sanitise every surface that will come into contact with cheese, or with anything that will come into contact with cheese. Boil all implements that can be boiled for at least 15' (that won't sterilise them quite, but it's close). Wash thoroughly everything you can't boil. Use separate utensils and receptacles for cheesemaking and separate ones for cooking to avoid cross-contamination. Use brushes rather than sponges for washing utensils and also keep them separate to avoid cross-contamination. Use clean paper towels, or sterilise your cloth towels before each cheesemaking session. Wash your hands thoroughly with soap and warm water, duh, or use one-use gloves (preferrably sterilised) chaning them every time you handle cheese. That's my regime anyway! I'm also curious about your comment that making mozzarella consumes too much milk. Normally you should get about 10-15% yield with cow's milk mozzarella, depending on how you make it. Are you making it by directly adding acid to milk (like citric acid or vinegar etc) or are you doing it traditional style? I think the direct-acid method can have lower yields.

MegaDeKay 5y ago
Your sterilization method is solid, but it is quite in contrast to the linked article's recipe for blue cheese that makes holes in a block of blue cheese with a screwdriver sterilized in vodka!
- cheese_goddess 5y ago
  Oh dear, really? I didn't read that part! Haha. Well, I guess if the vodka doesn't kill off the microbes at least they'll be your friends for buying them drinks XD
kevinmchugh 5y ago
Can you use a brewing sanitizer like Star-San? I don't know enough about the microbes here.
- cheese_goddess 5y ago
  Yes, as far as I know Star-San is popular with home cheesemakers. I haven't used it, or similar products, but I probably should, actually, for the things I can't easily boil.

tda 5y ago

Unfortunately cheese just requires a lot of milk in general. That's why the CO2 footprint of cheese is quite a bit higher than e.g. chicken meat [1] and only slightly better than red meat. I have become a vegetarian largely because of the climate impact of meat production. And though I have limited my dairy consumption, I still consume a fair bit of cheese and chocolate and coffee :( [1] https://ourworldindata.org/carbon-footprint-food-methane https://ourworldindata.org/carbon-footprint-food-methane

simonebrunozzi 5y ago

This [0] is Nathan Mhyrvold's book on pizza that you are referring to. I'd agree that a $300 book sounds expensive. On the other side, I'm quite happy that someone as "crazy" as Nathan is willing to do this kind of work. [0]: https://modernistcuisine.com/books/modernist-pizza/ https://modernistcuisine.com/books/modernist-pizza/

ddek 5y ago
I can almost guarantee I'm going to buy it some time. It has impulse buy written all over it for me. (Yes, I own modernist cuisine. I've even used it.)

VoodooJuJu 5y ago

>I wouldn't want to make hard cheeses at home, the food poisoning risk is way too high for me. A lot of this "risk" people mention when it comes to traditional (ancient) food preservation techniques is a purely modern irrational-emotional perception, typically brought on by a once-in-a-while news report of some salmonella outbreak at an industrial-scale food manufacturer. I see this irrational fear in circles related to homebrewing, charcuterie, pickles/sauerkraut, and more. It's unfortunate because this fear often drives people to deviate from traditional methods in ways that cause the final product to lack desirable properties like flavor, longevity, and nutrition, and can drive them to create something actually harmful to their health (like carcinogenic nitrates/nitrites in charcuterie).