3 ms·

Completely misses the point with their claim: "Google is just promoting carrier lock-in as a solution to Apple lock-in." That's not what RCS is.

justsomehnguy 5y ago
Can you have the same identity if you change your number/carrier? Can you use it not on the smartphone? Can you use it without cellular data Eg with Wi-Fi only? Can you throw out the SIM card and still send/receive messages? If the answers is 'no' then it is a carrier lock-in.
- webmaven 5y ago
  > Can you have the same identity if you change your number/carrier? Identity seems to be tied to a number (not carrier), but Messages uses Google Contacts as an optional layer of indirection. So, if you change your number, and the other person changes (or adds) the number to your existing contact, your identity is preserved (for them). If the other person creates a new contact for your new number (or doesn't associate the new number with any contact), identity is not preserved. > Can you use it not on the smartphone? Yes, you can use Google Messages for Web on a computer, but the authentication is still tied to the phone via a QR code, and I think that communication actually is relayed through the phone if the conversation is via SMS rather than RCS. > Can you use it without cellular data Eg with Wi-Fi only? Yes. > Can you throw out the SIM card and still send/receive messages? I think that the answer is generally 'no', but there are a few edge cases (eg. I'm not sure what happens if you auth Google Messages for Web on a computer, set it to remember the device auth indefinitely, and then remove the SIM or turn off the phone). > If the answers is 'no' then it is a carrier lock-in. As you can see, the answer isn't quite so black and white.
- NicoJuicy 5y ago
  Whatsapp is also bound to a phone number ...? Is that carrier bound? RCS works through QR code outside, just like you can end text-messages. Why throw out a sim card? You can use RCS with ANY carrier. If you can use it with ANY carrier, it's not carrier-lock in. In Belgium, the number is personal and not from someone else. If you transfer carrier, you are allowed by law to take the number with you.
  - justsomehnguy 5y ago
    > Whatsapp is also bound to a phone number ...? Is that carrier bound? In the world with NMP - it is 'carriers' bound, but still - good luck moving to another country and preserving your number. > Why throw out a sim card? There can be any reasons.. but the most common one is someone 'liberate' you of your phone and other belongings (sometimes including documents). So now you want to talk to your family, you get a phone, login with your Google account... and now you are required the same phone number to work it back. So off you go to your telco office to restore the SIM. Oh. It is 3:00 AM and you don't have any documents/ID to prove what you are the someone you claim. And imagine if this would happen not in your backyard, but on the other side of the planet. > In Belgium, the number is personal and not from someone else MNP. But still you are tied to your /number/. Unknown number: "Hey mom! It's me, your son NicoJuicy! I was robbed tonight, can you send $100 so I could get home?" Yes, for me WhatsApp is similar with proposed RCS implementation - it is too 'carriers' bound. I hate what I need to throw my /phone/ number around to everyone to just be able to receive some text from them. I would really prefer some identificator not tied to a local provider of a completely irrelevant service. Telegram, at least, allows you to use a nickname, though it still requires '2FA' through the SMS for the registration.
    - NicoJuicy 5y ago
      Move out to another country and keeping the number is not about the carrier, which a country has multiple of. It's because of the countrycode in your number. Which indicates... The country it of from... This is literally how the routing works in the network... What an idiot example fyi. That's not even about vendor lock-in, it's about stupidity. You can restore documents at the city hall or at the embassy abroad. Ps. I'm more tied to an email. But still doesn't make it carrier lock-in. I also can't use my email when I'm not on the internet...
parkingrift 5y ago
Can I use RCS to chat from my laptop signed in with an email?
- webmaven 5y ago
  My understanding is that Google Messages for Web authentication is linked to your phone (using a QR code).
sbuk 5y ago
That's exactly what RCS is about - except it's the Telcos that went to wrest control back. No thanks.

justsomehnguy 5y ago

Can you have the same identity if you change your number/carrier? Can you use it not on the smartphone? Can you use it without cellular data Eg with Wi-Fi only? Can you throw out the SIM card and still send/receive messages? If the answers is 'no' then it is a carrier lock-in.

webmaven 5y ago
> Can you have the same identity if you change your number/carrier? Identity seems to be tied to a number (not carrier), but Messages uses Google Contacts as an optional layer of indirection. So, if you change your number, and the other person changes (or adds) the number to your existing contact, your identity is preserved (for them). If the other person creates a new contact for your new number (or doesn't associate the new number with any contact), identity is not preserved. > Can you use it not on the smartphone? Yes, you can use Google Messages for Web on a computer, but the authentication is still tied to the phone via a QR code, and I think that communication actually is relayed through the phone if the conversation is via SMS rather than RCS. > Can you use it without cellular data Eg with Wi-Fi only? Yes. > Can you throw out the SIM card and still send/receive messages? I think that the answer is generally 'no', but there are a few edge cases (eg. I'm not sure what happens if you auth Google Messages for Web on a computer, set it to remember the device auth indefinitely, and then remove the SIM or turn off the phone). > If the answers is 'no' then it is a carrier lock-in. As you can see, the answer isn't quite so black and white.
NicoJuicy 5y ago
Whatsapp is also bound to a phone number ...? Is that carrier bound? RCS works through QR code outside, just like you can end text-messages. Why throw out a sim card? You can use RCS with ANY carrier. If you can use it with ANY carrier, it's not carrier-lock in. In Belgium, the number is personal and not from someone else. If you transfer carrier, you are allowed by law to take the number with you.
- justsomehnguy 5y ago
  > Whatsapp is also bound to a phone number ...? Is that carrier bound? In the world with NMP - it is 'carriers' bound, but still - good luck moving to another country and preserving your number. > Why throw out a sim card? There can be any reasons.. but the most common one is someone 'liberate' you of your phone and other belongings (sometimes including documents). So now you want to talk to your family, you get a phone, login with your Google account... and now you are required the same phone number to work it back. So off you go to your telco office to restore the SIM. Oh. It is 3:00 AM and you don't have any documents/ID to prove what you are the someone you claim. And imagine if this would happen not in your backyard, but on the other side of the planet. > In Belgium, the number is personal and not from someone else MNP. But still you are tied to your /number/. Unknown number: "Hey mom! It's me, your son NicoJuicy! I was robbed tonight, can you send $100 so I could get home?" Yes, for me WhatsApp is similar with proposed RCS implementation - it is too 'carriers' bound. I hate what I need to throw my /phone/ number around to everyone to just be able to receive some text from them. I would really prefer some identificator not tied to a local provider of a completely irrelevant service. Telegram, at least, allows you to use a nickname, though it still requires '2FA' through the SMS for the registration.
  - NicoJuicy 5y ago
    Move out to another country and keeping the number is not about the carrier, which a country has multiple of. It's because of the countrycode in your number. Which indicates... The country it of from... This is literally how the routing works in the network... What an idiot example fyi. That's not even about vendor lock-in, it's about stupidity. You can restore documents at the city hall or at the embassy abroad. Ps. I'm more tied to an email. But still doesn't make it carrier lock-in. I also can't use my email when I'm not on the internet...

parkingrift 5y ago

Can I use RCS to chat from my laptop signed in with an email?

webmaven 5y ago
My understanding is that Google Messages for Web authentication is linked to your phone (using a QR code).

sbuk 5y ago

That's exactly what RCS is about - except it's the Telcos that went to wrest control back. No thanks.