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Query rewriting, a useless and use-hostile technique, strikes again! (No I am not talking about trying to fix spelling mistakes with "did you mean". I mean stra

Query rewriting, a useless and use-hostile technique, strikes again! (No I am not talking about trying to fix spelling mistakes with "did you mean". I mean straight up removal or rewriting of correct English words) I am embarrassed by the whole field of NLP for making such a big deal out of a task that is fundamentally bad. Google optimizing for the "average user" comes at the expense of the whole world, because the "power users" who are optimized against literally build the internet for the normies. Cater to the normies for too long, and we see the status quo. Force the normies to get better at writing their queries. NLP will unironically have a large number of people with the title "query engineer" soon anyway due to the rise of increasingly large foundation language models proliferating. Welcome to the brace new world of botched semantic search!

Mezzie 5y ago
> Google optimizing for the "average user" comes at the expense of the whole world, because the "power users" who are optimized against literally build the internet for the normies. Cater to the normies for too long, and we see the status quo. If I were feeling cynical, I would point out that catering to us was a great idea for early Google, but not so much now. The problem with power users is that the more control you give them, the more they learn about how your product works and what decisions you're making. Power users can pick out dark UI and other user-hostile patterns more easily. Early Google needed the power users, because we were an essential component of building Google's early dominance: It was us gesturing the normies over and saying "as the computer person (TM) in your life, you should be using Google. They're cleaner and their results are better." We were needed to both scale their user base and plug gaps since at the time there weren't dozens of engineers working on issues and search + web indexing was still in its infancy. Now, though? There's no benefit to Google in engaging with power users. They have the numbers of normies they need for profit, and all engaging power users would do now is lead to more conversations like this in the real world, which is not what they want. "Oh, you're still using Google? They suck now. Use X, Y, and Z." = conversations Google doesn't want.
sullivandanny 5y ago
We cater to power users. If you absolutely, positively need a word or phrase to be on a page, use quotes. "age" or "tim lee" would tell us that exact word or that exact phrase has to be on the page. Which still doesn't help with this query, given that his age doesn't appear to be known, but you can do it for others.
- Der_Einzige 5y ago
  Even quotes don't actually work. I've witnessed google query rewrite even with full quotes. I've also seen other posts on HN from others who've had this happen to them.
  - sullivandanny 5y ago
    Quotes do work. They really, really do. Every time I look into a complaint about this, I find that the text really is on the page. It just might not be readily visible. Twitter link is in my bio here. If you ever get an example where you find quotes don't seem to be working, do pass it on.

Mezzie 5y ago

> Google optimizing for the "average user" comes at the expense of the whole world, because the "power users" who are optimized against literally build the internet for the normies. Cater to the normies for too long, and we see the status quo. If I were feeling cynical, I would point out that catering to us was a great idea for early Google, but not so much now. The problem with power users is that the more control you give them, the more they learn about how your product works and what decisions you're making. Power users can pick out dark UI and other user-hostile patterns more easily. Early Google needed the power users, because we were an essential component of building Google's early dominance: It was us gesturing the normies over and saying "as the computer person (TM) in your life, you should be using Google. They're cleaner and their results are better." We were needed to both scale their user base and plug gaps since at the time there weren't dozens of engineers working on issues and search + web indexing was still in its infancy. Now, though? There's no benefit to Google in engaging with power users. They have the numbers of normies they need for profit, and all engaging power users would do now is lead to more conversations like this in the real world, which is not what they want. "Oh, you're still using Google? They suck now. Use X, Y, and Z." = conversations Google doesn't want.

sullivandanny 5y ago

We cater to power users. If you absolutely, positively need a word or phrase to be on a page, use quotes. "age" or "tim lee" would tell us that exact word or that exact phrase has to be on the page. Which still doesn't help with this query, given that his age doesn't appear to be known, but you can do it for others.

Der_Einzige 5y ago
Even quotes don't actually work. I've witnessed google query rewrite even with full quotes. I've also seen other posts on HN from others who've had this happen to them.
- sullivandanny 5y ago
  Quotes do work. They really, really do. Every time I look into a complaint about this, I find that the text really is on the page. It just might not be readily visible. Twitter link is in my bio here. If you ever get an example where you find quotes don't seem to be working, do pass it on.