4 ms·

Almost everything, including the writing system. They even thought about romanisation, but instead just settled on butchering many of the complex characters wit

Almost everything, including the writing system. They even thought about romanisation, but instead just settled on butchering many of the complex characters without fully considering the historical, linguistic or aesthetic concerns.

platinumrad 5y ago
Even if you are a staunch traditionalist, "almost everything" is a massive exaggeration. The entire country still effectively shuts down for two weeks during the lunar new year. Sure this would be among the first things to go in an authoritarian state hell-bent on industrialization and yet it has persisted.
- starfallg 5y ago
  Of course that's a figure of speech, but hey, ok. With regards to the lunar new year break, Communist regimes actually have lots of public holidays. That's straight from their ideology, so not sure why you think that authoritarianism must equal to oppressing worker rights or the labour movement. That's why there is a distinction between the authoritarian left and the authoritarian right.
  - platinumrad 5y ago
    "[They eliminated] Almost everything, including the writing system" does not sound like a figure of speech to me, but you do you I guess.
    - starfallg 5y ago
      Yeah, it's a figure of speech, specifically "puffery". It's not meant to be literal.
- trompetenaccoun 5y ago
  During which time the family gets together to watch propaganda on CCTV. I wish I was joking but that's literally what almost every single family does. It's Chinese tradition in the name only. And that isn't to say that tradition doesn't still exist here and there. But it may not be as much as someone not familiar with Chinese history may assume. Btw even authoritarian subjects need days off or they would revolt sooner or later. So the assumption that this proofs Chinese tradition is alive doesn't follow. When the Christians completely annihilated European traditions they also kept the dates and a few of the customs of some of the pagan holidays. Like Easter eggs and Christmas trees. It actually helps destroy a culture faster, else there may be too much resistance.
  - platinumrad 5y ago
    There's a difference between days off and "half the country is boarding trains to some remote village so I guess the economy is just going to halt for a couple of weeks." And oh no, lots of people just sit around watching TV when they have to spend time with their folks. We must retvrn to tradition because family relations were 100% super functional and healthy back before modernity/communism/capitalism/your-favorite-boogieman ruined everything. > It actually helps destroy a culture faster, else there may be too much resistance. Ah, the classic "evidence against my point is actually evidence for my point."
jabbany 5y ago
> butchering many of the complex characters without fully considering the historical, linguistic or aesthetic concerns. There were committees of linguistic scholars that spent a ton of time on trying to reconcile the historical, linguistic and aesthetic concerns during the simplification effort. Is it perfect? No. But it was also not an impulse move either. Also one needs to consider the context of simplification --- the idea of simplification was quite a popular and progressive idea around that time in the entire area. It was widely believed that the complex Han characters were a big hurdle in improving literacy rates and bringing more opportunity to rural areas. Both Japan and Korea engaged in similar simplification or de-ideogram efforts to varying degrees of success.

platinumrad 5y ago

Even if you are a staunch traditionalist, "almost everything" is a massive exaggeration. The entire country still effectively shuts down for two weeks during the lunar new year. Sure this would be among the first things to go in an authoritarian state hell-bent on industrialization and yet it has persisted.

starfallg 5y ago
Of course that's a figure of speech, but hey, ok. With regards to the lunar new year break, Communist regimes actually have lots of public holidays. That's straight from their ideology, so not sure why you think that authoritarianism must equal to oppressing worker rights or the labour movement. That's why there is a distinction between the authoritarian left and the authoritarian right.
- platinumrad 5y ago
  "[They eliminated] Almost everything, including the writing system" does not sound like a figure of speech to me, but you do you I guess.
  - starfallg 5y ago
    Yeah, it's a figure of speech, specifically "puffery". It's not meant to be literal.
trompetenaccoun 5y ago
During which time the family gets together to watch propaganda on CCTV. I wish I was joking but that's literally what almost every single family does. It's Chinese tradition in the name only. And that isn't to say that tradition doesn't still exist here and there. But it may not be as much as someone not familiar with Chinese history may assume. Btw even authoritarian subjects need days off or they would revolt sooner or later. So the assumption that this proofs Chinese tradition is alive doesn't follow. When the Christians completely annihilated European traditions they also kept the dates and a few of the customs of some of the pagan holidays. Like Easter eggs and Christmas trees. It actually helps destroy a culture faster, else there may be too much resistance.
- platinumrad 5y ago
  There's a difference between days off and "half the country is boarding trains to some remote village so I guess the economy is just going to halt for a couple of weeks." And oh no, lots of people just sit around watching TV when they have to spend time with their folks. We must retvrn to tradition because family relations were 100% super functional and healthy back before modernity/communism/capitalism/your-favorite-boogieman ruined everything. > It actually helps destroy a culture faster, else there may be too much resistance. Ah, the classic "evidence against my point is actually evidence for my point."

jabbany 5y ago

> butchering many of the complex characters without fully considering the historical, linguistic or aesthetic concerns. There were committees of linguistic scholars that spent a ton of time on trying to reconcile the historical, linguistic and aesthetic concerns during the simplification effort. Is it perfect? No. But it was also not an impulse move either. Also one needs to consider the context of simplification --- the idea of simplification was quite a popular and progressive idea around that time in the entire area. It was widely believed that the complex Han characters were a big hurdle in improving literacy rates and bringing more opportunity to rural areas. Both Japan and Korea engaged in similar simplification or de-ideogram efforts to varying degrees of success.