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> The documents are laid out like a modern spreadsheet > a wonder of the ancient world Very slightly OT, but it's a shame history has been divided between "An

by bambax 5y ago

> The documents are laid out like a modern spreadsheet > a wonder of the ancient world Very slightly OT, but it's a shame history has been divided between "Ancient Times" and "our era", because it's obvious we are contemporaneous to these people who wrote down their daily activities in a journal and kept track of what was owned to whom on a paper table that looked like a spreadsheet. Not just contemporaneous: we are the same.

kragen 5y ago
We use coinage and alphabets, transmute rocks into metal, have near-universal literacy, fly through the air like birds, bring the fire of the Sun to Earth to slay our enemies, walk on the Moon, transplant hearts and kidneys from one person to another, and bring forth plentiful harvests within glass temples in frozen wastelands. We craft elephants of iron that swallow us when we wish to travel from one city to another. Upon arrival, they disgorge us unharmed. They run five times as fast as the fastest horse. Eleven years ago, we finished building a tower that is five times as tall as the Great Pyramid; building it took only six years and 22 million person-hours (so perhaps 1000 people, the size of Merer's aper, though unlike Merer's workers they were enslaved). It's not defensive (towers are almost useless for defense now); it's mostly luxury housing. In two centuries it will be gone. We turn night into day whenever we wish, making travel at night just as easy as travel in the day. Only one in 100 children die before age 5 now, a number that was around 20 throughout all human history until a century ago. Most people who are born live threescore years or more. But many fewer people are born compared to our population (which is 250 times bigger than in Merer's time), because now people do not become pregnant unless they want to, usually. Most people do not raise their own children any more; they put them into state institutions except for evenings, weekends, and summertime. When someone is badly injured or sick, we put their body into a state of temporary death, cut it open, fix the problem, sew them up like a torn sweater, and bring them back to life; it's so commonplace that people sometimes choose to undergo this procedure for cosmetic reasons such as having bigger breasts. To speak to one another, we often use the power of lightning, invisibly leaping through the air, to convey our thoughts to one another, even though we may be on opposite sides of the earth. We have put thousands of new, tiny moons in the sky because they help this system work better. Usually when we write, instead of using ink, we write in letters of lightning. It's easier that way, because the letters disappear and reappear whenever we wish. 95% of the world's work is now done by servants made of metal such as the elephants I mentioned. For example, almost nobody washes clothes anymore, and we can all listen to music more perfect than any human can play, whenever and wherever we wish, played for us by these metal servants. These servants do not eat food; instead they are fed on lightning made from the black blood of the Earth. Doing too much of this sort of thing is changing the weather and melting the glaciers, so now we are teaching these servants to feed on sunlight instead. Most countries, especially the militarily strongest, no longer have kings. We have the same kind of paintings Merer had, but also a different kind of paintings that glow, move, and speak. Sometimes people sit for hours watching these incredibly lifelike paintings, laughing and crying. Sometimes they show us things that are happening right now, far away, and sometimes they show us things that happened in the past, or that never happened. Most houses no longer have fireplaces. Most people no longer know how to make fire; they have tiny tools that make fire for them. But sure, basically nothing has changed, because we still use spreadsheets.
- jd115 5y ago
  This is the single best comment I have ever read on HN. Of course you won't see it glorified by HN folk, cause they're entirely elsewhere vibrationally. Too busy complaining. "Well, someone has to complain! Someone has to keep others accountable!" they cry. May be true, maybe not, but when all we do is complain, nothing gets done. Not for lack of effort and busyness, but for lack of faith and goodwill.
  - 6510 5y ago
    On the contrary, if no one complaints nothing will happen. Moaning always comes before invention. Its just not the moaners themselves who make anything happen but they are very much part of the delicate balance. You could invent something without moaners but no one would recognize it. Take this one for example: > bring the fire of the Sun to Earth to slay our enemies The amount of moaning we still have to do about this? If we fail at that task, this fire stuff will be sure to be the end of us.
    - kragen 5y ago
      I suppose that in a sense any non-playful attempt to change the state of affairs, whether directed at technical progress or not, is rooted in a "complaint": you imagine a possible future and judge that the current state of affairs is worse by comparison. And you cannot simply ignore the present when you do this. Any attempt to bring that future about necessarily begins by taking stock of the resources available in the present: if you try to hike to a mountain peak without taking your gaze from that peak, you will stumble and twist your ankle. But that is not a judgmental, condemnatory way of perceiving the present; it is a factual evaluation of the means available to you in the present, similar to the factual evaluation of the possibilities that exist in a possible future. So I don't know that I agree with your thesis that progress is rooted in dissatisfaction, though many people do. > The amount of moaning we still have to do about this? If we fail at that task, this fire stuff will be sure to be the end of us. This comment suggests to me that you do not yet adequately appreciate the risks of pervasive surveillance and precision-guided munitions, by comparison with which the risks of thermonuclear warheads pale.
atoav 5y ago
In the sense of: People in ancient times were also people with needs, urges, dreams, hopes etc. You are right. Looking at ancient people and describing them like a different species makes no sense at all. However believe systems make a huge difference as well. As a child I had problems placing myself into the shoes of my grandfather who was a Nazi, went to the eastern front and had values that differed immensely from what my parents told me was good and right. But we shared at least some common cultural knowledge and social practise. Ancient people can feel foreign because their lived cultural practise, believes etc differ from ours hugely. Not being able to put yourself into the shoes of someone who e.g. lived in a feudal system is normal — you need to be very well informed to be able to imagine how life felt to someone like that, nevertheless is still worth to try of course.
nathias 5y ago
Do you think ancient implies a different species or what? Some tech is very old.
jesussaves 5y ago

by bambax 5y ago

kragen 5y ago

We use coinage and alphabets, transmute rocks into metal, have near-universal literacy, fly through the air like birds, bring the fire of the Sun to Earth to slay our enemies, walk on the Moon, transplant hearts and kidneys from one person to another, and bring forth plentiful harvests within glass temples in frozen wastelands. We craft elephants of iron that swallow us when we wish to travel from one city to another. Upon arrival, they disgorge us unharmed. They run five times as fast as the fastest horse. Eleven years ago, we finished building a tower that is five times as tall as the Great Pyramid; building it took only six years and 22 million person-hours (so perhaps 1000 people, the size of Merer's aper, though unlike Merer's workers they were enslaved). It's not defensive (towers are almost useless for defense now); it's mostly luxury housing. In two centuries it will be gone. We turn night into day whenever we wish, making travel at night just as easy as travel in the day. Only one in 100 children die before age 5 now, a number that was around 20 throughout all human history until a century ago. Most people who are born live threescore years or more. But many fewer people are born compared to our population (which is 250 times bigger than in Merer's time), because now people do not become pregnant unless they want to, usually. Most people do not raise their own children any more; they put them into state institutions except for evenings, weekends, and summertime. When someone is badly injured or sick, we put their body into a state of temporary death, cut it open, fix the problem, sew them up like a torn sweater, and bring them back to life; it's so commonplace that people sometimes choose to undergo this procedure for cosmetic reasons such as having bigger breasts. To speak to one another, we often use the power of lightning, invisibly leaping through the air, to convey our thoughts to one another, even though we may be on opposite sides of the earth. We have put thousands of new, tiny moons in the sky because they help this system work better. Usually when we write, instead of using ink, we write in letters of lightning. It's easier that way, because the letters disappear and reappear whenever we wish. 95% of the world's work is now done by servants made of metal such as the elephants I mentioned. For example, almost nobody washes clothes anymore, and we can all listen to music more perfect than any human can play, whenever and wherever we wish, played for us by these metal servants. These servants do not eat food; instead they are fed on lightning made from the black blood of the Earth. Doing too much of this sort of thing is changing the weather and melting the glaciers, so now we are teaching these servants to feed on sunlight instead. Most countries, especially the militarily strongest, no longer have kings. We have the same kind of paintings Merer had, but also a different kind of paintings that glow, move, and speak. Sometimes people sit for hours watching these incredibly lifelike paintings, laughing and crying. Sometimes they show us things that are happening right now, far away, and sometimes they show us things that happened in the past, or that never happened. Most houses no longer have fireplaces. Most people no longer know how to make fire; they have tiny tools that make fire for them. But sure, basically nothing has changed, because we still use spreadsheets.

jd115 5y ago
This is the single best comment I have ever read on HN. Of course you won't see it glorified by HN folk, cause they're entirely elsewhere vibrationally. Too busy complaining. "Well, someone has to complain! Someone has to keep others accountable!" they cry. May be true, maybe not, but when all we do is complain, nothing gets done. Not for lack of effort and busyness, but for lack of faith and goodwill.
- 6510 5y ago
  On the contrary, if no one complaints nothing will happen. Moaning always comes before invention. Its just not the moaners themselves who make anything happen but they are very much part of the delicate balance. You could invent something without moaners but no one would recognize it. Take this one for example: > bring the fire of the Sun to Earth to slay our enemies The amount of moaning we still have to do about this? If we fail at that task, this fire stuff will be sure to be the end of us.
  - kragen 5y ago
    I suppose that in a sense any non-playful attempt to change the state of affairs, whether directed at technical progress or not, is rooted in a "complaint": you imagine a possible future and judge that the current state of affairs is worse by comparison. And you cannot simply ignore the present when you do this. Any attempt to bring that future about necessarily begins by taking stock of the resources available in the present: if you try to hike to a mountain peak without taking your gaze from that peak, you will stumble and twist your ankle. But that is not a judgmental, condemnatory way of perceiving the present; it is a factual evaluation of the means available to you in the present, similar to the factual evaluation of the possibilities that exist in a possible future. So I don't know that I agree with your thesis that progress is rooted in dissatisfaction, though many people do. > The amount of moaning we still have to do about this? If we fail at that task, this fire stuff will be sure to be the end of us. This comment suggests to me that you do not yet adequately appreciate the risks of pervasive surveillance and precision-guided munitions, by comparison with which the risks of thermonuclear warheads pale.

atoav 5y ago

In the sense of: People in ancient times were also people with needs, urges, dreams, hopes etc. You are right. Looking at ancient people and describing them like a different species makes no sense at all. However believe systems make a huge difference as well. As a child I had problems placing myself into the shoes of my grandfather who was a Nazi, went to the eastern front and had values that differed immensely from what my parents told me was good and right. But we shared at least some common cultural knowledge and social practise. Ancient people can feel foreign because their lived cultural practise, believes etc differ from ours hugely. Not being able to put yourself into the shoes of someone who e.g. lived in a feudal system is normal — you need to be very well informed to be able to imagine how life felt to someone like that, nevertheless is still worth to try of course.

nathias 5y ago

Do you think ancient implies a different species or what? Some tech is very old.

jesussaves 5y ago