8 ms·

John Wycliffe (1340 AD): "How should God approve that you rob Peter and give this robbery to Paul in the name of Christ?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_rob_

John Wycliffe (1340 AD): "How should God approve that you rob Peter and give this robbery to Paul in the name of Christ?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_rob_Peter_to_pay_Paul https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_rob_Peter_to_pay_Paul

Hnrobert42 5y ago
Yeah, except we are not talking about two people. We are talking about killing a pig to save a human, potentially thousands of humans.
- goldenkey 5y ago
  We are talking about torturing a pig, killing is really no big deal -- everything dies but not everything suffers.
  - hulitu 5y ago
    I think a pig being killed would dissagree.
  - kaba0 5y ago
    As for what constitutes torture is arguable. To me, doing surgery with anesthesia don’t automatically fall into that category (though of course it can — eg. the famous experiment of putting a second dog’s head to another one’s torso was torture in my opinion).
- sytelus 5y ago
  Is this so much worse than killing pig and salivating its meat and devouring it? Think about it, you are killing a living animal for your one meal when you had all the options in the world. Many people are not even eating it fully and simpply just tossing it away literally in a trash. As usual, I am sure a lot of people will run to Bible to justify this.
  - foerbert 5y ago
    I mean, plenty of people also have a problem with that. I'm not sure a discussion on the ethics of a thing should end just because a similar thing is more widespread.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      It seems a little ridiculous to worry about animals being used for life-saving medical research when most Americans are eating meat every single day, to be honest. Sure, one could consistently oppose both, but from a sheer sense of proportion, why is _this_ the thing to worry about?
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    > Is this so much worse than killing pig and salivating its meat and devouring it? Couldn’t we do both?
- pipodeclown 5y ago
  A thought experiment I always like to posit is: what if we were the animal that needed to be tested on for the benefit of medical research that could safe a lot of the members of an alien species that is much more intelligent than us. Would that by extension also be justified? I eat meat by the way so I'm not trying to supplant my ethical views on you.
  - alex_sf 5y ago
    Fwiw a lot of people would argue that sacrificing one human for the benefit of many more is worthwhile. Not something to celebrate, but an acceptable tradeoff.
    - hulitu 5y ago
      The problem is that some of those people are also ok with sacrificing many humans for the benefit of few.
    - edanm 5y ago
      Frankly, almost every country has an army, which is a in a since a vehicle that sacrifices some people to save others (young people, too).
  - elvis10ten 5y ago
    I have a similar thought experiment but on “pets” —- What if an advanced civilization uses humans as pets
    - mahkeiro 5y ago
      I don’t know but if it is like my cat who is free to come and go, I don’t see the problem. That’s not really different from the human life.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    I don't see that as really an ethical question... from their perspective, probably yes. From our perspective, we'd probably be trying to kill the aliens.
- lostlogin 5y ago
  … and kill thousands more pigs. It may be a simple choice for some, but it won’t be for others.

Hnrobert42 5y ago

Yeah, except we are not talking about two people. We are talking about killing a pig to save a human, potentially thousands of humans.

goldenkey 5y ago
We are talking about torturing a pig, killing is really no big deal -- everything dies but not everything suffers.
- hulitu 5y ago
  I think a pig being killed would dissagree.
- kaba0 5y ago
  As for what constitutes torture is arguable. To me, doing surgery with anesthesia don’t automatically fall into that category (though of course it can — eg. the famous experiment of putting a second dog’s head to another one’s torso was torture in my opinion).
sytelus 5y ago
Is this so much worse than killing pig and salivating its meat and devouring it? Think about it, you are killing a living animal for your one meal when you had all the options in the world. Many people are not even eating it fully and simpply just tossing it away literally in a trash. As usual, I am sure a lot of people will run to Bible to justify this.
- foerbert 5y ago
  I mean, plenty of people also have a problem with that. I'm not sure a discussion on the ethics of a thing should end just because a similar thing is more widespread.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    It seems a little ridiculous to worry about animals being used for life-saving medical research when most Americans are eating meat every single day, to be honest. Sure, one could consistently oppose both, but from a sheer sense of proportion, why is _this_ the thing to worry about?
- lostlogin 5y ago
  > Is this so much worse than killing pig and salivating its meat and devouring it? Couldn’t we do both?
pipodeclown 5y ago
A thought experiment I always like to posit is: what if we were the animal that needed to be tested on for the benefit of medical research that could safe a lot of the members of an alien species that is much more intelligent than us. Would that by extension also be justified? I eat meat by the way so I'm not trying to supplant my ethical views on you.
- alex_sf 5y ago
  Fwiw a lot of people would argue that sacrificing one human for the benefit of many more is worthwhile. Not something to celebrate, but an acceptable tradeoff.
  - hulitu 5y ago
    The problem is that some of those people are also ok with sacrificing many humans for the benefit of few.
  - edanm 5y ago
    Frankly, almost every country has an army, which is a in a since a vehicle that sacrifices some people to save others (young people, too).
- elvis10ten 5y ago
  I have a similar thought experiment but on “pets” —- What if an advanced civilization uses humans as pets
  - mahkeiro 5y ago
    I don’t know but if it is like my cat who is free to come and go, I don’t see the problem. That’s not really different from the human life.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  I don't see that as really an ethical question... from their perspective, probably yes. From our perspective, we'd probably be trying to kill the aliens.
lostlogin 5y ago
… and kill thousands more pigs. It may be a simple choice for some, but it won’t be for others.