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A lot of our common conceptions of the past are flat out wrong. Often deliberate fabrications for political ends. Why wouldn't fathers, in general, be affectio

A lot of our common conceptions of the past are flat out wrong. Often deliberate fabrications for political ends. Why wouldn't fathers, in general, be affectionate? The Bible (to take a very old book) if full of fatherly affection. Take the story of Abraham and his son to be sacrificed. The story has always been shocking because the reader knows the son was so wanted and loved and empathizes. Even the prejudice isn't universal. Italians don't have this conception of cold fathers 100 years ago. Could it be a protestant thing? Possibly except the Norwegians in this set are themselves Protestants. I would chalk up the image of a cold, distant father, to the generational shock of 31 years of slaughter in Europe (1914-1945). Some blame Bismarck and his quest to make perfect soldiers through universal education (and the export of the Prussian model). But, really, the past is not as bad as it is depicted. Life was tougher, but there was love, laughter, loyalty, beauty, and friendship. I suspect more so than today.

nickpp 5y ago
- tagoregrtst 5y ago
  Lol. Touche It might be a fabrication, but then its fantasy and not deliberate. You see, it really is the other way around with respect to my comment. My suspicions about the past are what drives me politically. Obviously we are better than our forefathers in many things - listing them would be trite. But, on the whole, are we better off (never mind better)? These pictures were taken before industrialized genocide, world wars, atomic weapons, the mass adoption and molding of our cities around the automobile. Right now every living creature on earth is on a knife’s edge of total destruction through nuclear or environmental disaster. If this is, on the whole, industrial progress I don't want it.
  - throw10920 5y ago
    Not just touche - GP has an agenda. From their bio: > Respecting Nature's laws and abhorring religions.
    - tagoregrtst 5y ago
      That’s OK, it was still a good jab
    - nickpp 5y ago
      Hmm I do not remember having any agenda when I wrote that in my bio. But please, enlighten me: what do my words make you think of?
reedjosh 5y ago
I think politics are a big part, but I've been wondering a lot lately how much of this was leaded gasoline as well. Crime waves and angry parents could easily have been lead poisoning.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  Don't attribute to toxins what can be attributed to malice.
watwut 5y ago
I think that OP draws on his family experience where it was like that. People tend to normalize the experience of their family.
socialdemocrat 5y ago
It is definitely culture. While Norway is Protestant it long been very progressive. It is the first country establishing government watchdog for protecting children’s rights. Britain is kind of infamous for strict child raising and because of the dominance of British in history they color our perception of the past. I have several family members who lived in Britain for years back in the day. They all describe the treatment of children in ways what would horrify Norwegians. I live in an immigrant area of Oslo with many Muslims. They are known to be more strict with children. But even they remark on how strict British is. My neighbor had her daughter on exchange in Britain and her daughter describe the host family as very strict. They are not used to that behavior from growing up in Norway.
- GoodbyeMrChips 5y ago
  > family members who lived in Britain for years back in the day. They all describe the treatment of children in ways what would horrify Norwegians In which case, you *must* read Roald Dahl's autobiography 'Boy' (and the follow up, 'Going Solo'). He moved from Norway as a child into the English public school system, and a treatment that horrified his parents. Incidentally, the biographies are aimed at children but very cleverly written to appeal to adults. For example, he describes a school teacher (in the 1920's) who would occasionally jump and twitch in class, making startled noises. The children found out he had something called "shell shock" and decided that this meant a shell must have exploded so close to him that he jumped so high he hadn't stopped jumping........ Interesting and funny to read as a child, but this works on another level when you read it as an adult.
  - tagoregrtst 5y ago
    Or Orwell’s essays on British education, or Pink Floyd’s “Brick in the Wall part 2”, or Supertramp’s “Logical song” British grammar school is brutal.

nickpp 5y ago

tagoregrtst 5y ago
Lol. Touche It might be a fabrication, but then its fantasy and not deliberate. You see, it really is the other way around with respect to my comment. My suspicions about the past are what drives me politically. Obviously we are better than our forefathers in many things - listing them would be trite. But, on the whole, are we better off (never mind better)? These pictures were taken before industrialized genocide, world wars, atomic weapons, the mass adoption and molding of our cities around the automobile. Right now every living creature on earth is on a knife’s edge of total destruction through nuclear or environmental disaster. If this is, on the whole, industrial progress I don't want it.
- throw10920 5y ago
  Not just touche - GP has an agenda. From their bio: > Respecting Nature's laws and abhorring religions.
  - tagoregrtst 5y ago
    That’s OK, it was still a good jab
  - nickpp 5y ago
    Hmm I do not remember having any agenda when I wrote that in my bio. But please, enlighten me: what do my words make you think of?

reedjosh 5y ago

I think politics are a big part, but I've been wondering a lot lately how much of this was leaded gasoline as well. Crime waves and angry parents could easily have been lead poisoning.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago
Don't attribute to toxins what can be attributed to malice.

watwut 5y ago

I think that OP draws on his family experience where it was like that. People tend to normalize the experience of their family.

socialdemocrat 5y ago

It is definitely culture. While Norway is Protestant it long been very progressive. It is the first country establishing government watchdog for protecting children’s rights. Britain is kind of infamous for strict child raising and because of the dominance of British in history they color our perception of the past. I have several family members who lived in Britain for years back in the day. They all describe the treatment of children in ways what would horrify Norwegians. I live in an immigrant area of Oslo with many Muslims. They are known to be more strict with children. But even they remark on how strict British is. My neighbor had her daughter on exchange in Britain and her daughter describe the host family as very strict. They are not used to that behavior from growing up in Norway.

GoodbyeMrChips 5y ago
> family members who lived in Britain for years back in the day. They all describe the treatment of children in ways what would horrify Norwegians In which case, you *must* read Roald Dahl's autobiography 'Boy' (and the follow up, 'Going Solo'). He moved from Norway as a child into the English public school system, and a treatment that horrified his parents. Incidentally, the biographies are aimed at children but very cleverly written to appeal to adults. For example, he describes a school teacher (in the 1920's) who would occasionally jump and twitch in class, making startled noises. The children found out he had something called "shell shock" and decided that this meant a shell must have exploded so close to him that he jumped so high he hadn't stopped jumping........ Interesting and funny to read as a child, but this works on another level when you read it as an adult.
- tagoregrtst 5y ago
  Or Orwell’s essays on British education, or Pink Floyd’s “Brick in the Wall part 2”, or Supertramp’s “Logical song” British grammar school is brutal.