3 ms·

Patients waiting in ERs for days (because you wanted an example): https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/coronavirus/patients-wait-in-ers-for-days-

by skulk 5y ago

Patients waiting in ERs for days (because you wanted an example): https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/coronavirus/patients-wait-in-ers-for-days-as-covid-19-patients-overwhelm-st-louis-area-hospitals/article_e402c8ba-89fb-5942-9d32-d93ff7934bf2.html https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/coronavir... For people aged 18-37, risk of getting hospitalized is 10x if unvaccinated: https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/data-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/... The case rate is not as much higher for young people, only 2x, but the hospitalization rate is 10x higher. This is the youngest age group as well, and the data is worse as the age increases. Putting the two together, the picture is clear: there are people in the ER (or ICU) that don't really need to be there, and because of how easy it was to avoid they are directly responsible for the suffering they cause in those who have to wait. I'm not sure how a layer of nuance beyond these facts can change that.

lovich 5y ago
There is not a layer of nuance anymore. These guys have been consistently wrong on a daily/weekly basis for years at this point. The situation is that anti vaxxers are assumed not to be automatically wrong, but to be noise. There is zero useful information to be had from engaging with them. If they go against the scientific consensus it means nothing, if they don’t have an opinion on the scientific consensus, it means nothing, and if they agree with the scientific consensus it means nothing. There’s this implicit assumption that everyone in a conversation deserves to have their opinion heard or examined, but these guys have burned every shred of credibility they have
claytongulick 5y ago
That's a pretty scary article, but doesn't seem to entirely square with the actual admissions data [1]. The largest hospital in the area, Barnes Jewish Hospital with over 1,100 beds had only roughly 10% of them filled with covid patients as of the last week in December. Most of the hospitals were no where close to capacity. Mercy hospital, the second largest after Barnes had an average of 102 of 959 beds filled with Covid patients, again somewhere around 10%. Also, these are patients with Covid, not necessarily patients admitted because of covid. If we take the article's statistic of 2/3 of the admissions being unvaccinated, then for Mercy, for example, 67 of their patients are unvaccinated Covid patients, possibly incidental to their admission reason. We're seeing 50-70% of "Covid admissions" in some places are actually "incidental", they were admitted for other reasons [2]. So the real number of unvaccinated sick covid patients at Mercy is probably somewhere between 30-50. St Louis has a population of almost 310,000. Doesn't really seem worth breaking out the pitchforks over, does it? [1]https://data.thespectrum.com/covid-19-hospital-capacity/missouri/29/st-louis-city/29510/ https://data.thespectrum.com/covid-19-hospital-capacity/miss... [2]https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-safety-outcomes/hospitals-see-more-patients-with-covid-19-vs-for-covid-19.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-safety-outcome...
claytongulick 5y ago
> For people aged 18-37, risk of getting hospitalized is 10x if unvaccinated I'm sorry, I had to sort of chortle at this one. According to that doc, the chance of hospitalization is 0.00037 instead of 0.000036 in the age group you mentioned for the unvaccinated. Sure sounds a lot more scary to say "10 times the chance!" though.

by skulk 5y ago

lovich 5y ago

There is not a layer of nuance anymore. These guys have been consistently wrong on a daily/weekly basis for years at this point. The situation is that anti vaxxers are assumed not to be automatically wrong, but to be noise. There is zero useful information to be had from engaging with them. If they go against the scientific consensus it means nothing, if they don’t have an opinion on the scientific consensus, it means nothing, and if they agree with the scientific consensus it means nothing. There’s this implicit assumption that everyone in a conversation deserves to have their opinion heard or examined, but these guys have burned every shred of credibility they have

claytongulick 5y ago

That's a pretty scary article, but doesn't seem to entirely square with the actual admissions data [1]. The largest hospital in the area, Barnes Jewish Hospital with over 1,100 beds had only roughly 10% of them filled with covid patients as of the last week in December. Most of the hospitals were no where close to capacity. Mercy hospital, the second largest after Barnes had an average of 102 of 959 beds filled with Covid patients, again somewhere around 10%. Also, these are patients with Covid, not necessarily patients admitted because of covid. If we take the article's statistic of 2/3 of the admissions being unvaccinated, then for Mercy, for example, 67 of their patients are unvaccinated Covid patients, possibly incidental to their admission reason. We're seeing 50-70% of "Covid admissions" in some places are actually "incidental", they were admitted for other reasons [2]. So the real number of unvaccinated sick covid patients at Mercy is probably somewhere between 30-50. St Louis has a population of almost 310,000. Doesn't really seem worth breaking out the pitchforks over, does it? [1]https://data.thespectrum.com/covid-19-hospital-capacity/missouri/29/st-louis-city/29510/ https://data.thespectrum.com/covid-19-hospital-capacity/miss... [2]https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-safety-outcomes/hospitals-see-more-patients-with-covid-19-vs-for-covid-19.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-safety-outcome...

claytongulick 5y ago

> For people aged 18-37, risk of getting hospitalized is 10x if unvaccinated I'm sorry, I had to sort of chortle at this one. According to that doc, the chance of hospitalization is 0.00037 instead of 0.000036 in the age group you mentioned for the unvaccinated. Sure sounds a lot more scary to say "10 times the chance!" though.