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"Vaccines were never expected to stop the pandemic." That's complete bullshit. You can find many examples of experts, governments and politicians claiming that

"Vaccines were never expected to stop the pandemic." That's complete bullshit. You can find many examples of experts, governments and politicians claiming that's exactly what was likely going to happen. That was the message people were sold. For good reason, there are many diseases that have been wiped out by vaccination.

coryfklein 5y ago
Exactly! What was all that talk about using the vaccine to achieve herd immunity and reduce the R0? That was SO the narrative.
bun_at_work 5y ago
Do you have sources? Who said the vaccines were going to stop the pandemic, as opposed to death from covid?
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- Izkata 5y ago
  Politicians, media, social media... It was just about everyone except scientists who were saying that from like April through November 2021. Around November/December people suddenly started treating it as if no one ever said that, as if they suddenly realized they were lied to and didn't want to look like they were fooled.
didibus 5y ago
This was a possibility at some point, but it required a very high number of people to get vaccinated quickly, before more variants. That did not happen, so the newer variants the vaccines had lower efficiency, which required even more people to be vaccinated, which is now seen as impossible, and so instead of hoping to get rid of Covid, now we hope to make it endemic, which is also achieved through more immunity, that which can come from either surviving Covid, or a vaccine. In the endemic state, most everyone has had immunity through a vaccine or recovering from Covid at least once. Covid is still around, since it evolves quickly to bypass immunity and spreads too fast to be eradicated, but as something that people get say yearly, or at a rate more similar to a cold or the flu, you get in this sort of balance where you're always immune enough to survive the next one and evolve your immunity along the way. The issue is getting to this state with the least casualty, and vaccines are best for that. I checked for other pandemics to see how they ended, and they all seem to end the same way, by reaching large herd immunity either through vaccination, or just everyone catching it and having the weak die off, and the survivors pass on immunity to the next generation.
- a45a33s 5y ago
  >This was a possibility at some point, but it required a very high number of people to get vaccinated quickly, before more variants. it required vaccines that actually slow the spread of disease
mleonhard 5y ago
I should not have written "Vaccines were never expected to stop the pandemic." Vaccines were expected to stop the pandemic. PRC, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and other countries had SARS-CoV-1 in 2003 [0]. It kills 9% of people who catch it, even young people. Their governments performed effective contact tracing and forced quarantining. Everyone in those countries was careful not to catch or spread the disease. It nearly became a pandemic, but the people stopped it. I hoped that Americans would do the same with SARS-CoV-2 (covid). Instead, we went half the pandemic without a pandemic expert (epidemiologist) on the National Covid Task Force [1]. Our national leader downplayed the pandemic, refused to be careful not to catch or spread the disease, caught the disease, exposed his political opponents to it during debate, recovered, and consistently undermined and contradicted our national pandemic experts (CDC) [2]. Our government contact tracing programs have been underfunded and ineffective. Only schools performed effective contact tracing. Quarantine is not enforced or even checked. There are no fines or prison time for sick people who go to work or to gatherings and spread the disease. Many Americans refused to take simple precautions to avoid catching or transmitting the disease. Some places even banned such precautions [3]! About 20% of adult Americans refused the vaccine [4]. Americans refused to cooperate and achieve herd immunity. Do not blame epidemiologists for telling us what was possible. We should blame callous & incompetent politicians for undermining our medical professionals, blame callous & greedy media companies for targeting medical advice with their anti-establishment dogma, and blame callous & gullible Americans for refusing vaccines and carelessly spreading the disease. Cities with cooperative people did achieve herd immunity. For example, San Francisco did in 2021-06 [5]. Then Delta and Omicron variants arrived. They break through existing immunity. USA now has 700,000 new cases of Omicron per day [6]. So we should reach herd immunity for Omicron in March. Then the pandemic will be over for us, unless another breakthrough variant arises. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Coronavirus_Task_Force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Coronavirus_Task_F... [2] https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-the-fall-of-the-cdc https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-the-fall-of-the-cd... [3] https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/governor-abbott-issues-executive-order-prohibiting-government-entities-from-mandating-masks https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/governor-abbott-issues-execu... [4] https://usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-states/ https://usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-st... [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_the_San_Francisco_Bay_Area#Cases_by_county_over_time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_the_San_F... [6] https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?areas=usa&cumulative=0&logScale=0&per100K=0&startDate=2021-06-01&values=cases https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?areas=usa&cumulative=0&...

coryfklein 5y ago

Exactly! What was all that talk about using the vaccine to achieve herd immunity and reduce the R0? That was SO the narrative.

bun_at_work 5y ago

Do you have sources? Who said the vaccines were going to stop the pandemic, as opposed to death from covid?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Izkata 5y ago
Politicians, media, social media... It was just about everyone except scientists who were saying that from like April through November 2021. Around November/December people suddenly started treating it as if no one ever said that, as if they suddenly realized they were lied to and didn't want to look like they were fooled.

didibus 5y ago

This was a possibility at some point, but it required a very high number of people to get vaccinated quickly, before more variants. That did not happen, so the newer variants the vaccines had lower efficiency, which required even more people to be vaccinated, which is now seen as impossible, and so instead of hoping to get rid of Covid, now we hope to make it endemic, which is also achieved through more immunity, that which can come from either surviving Covid, or a vaccine. In the endemic state, most everyone has had immunity through a vaccine or recovering from Covid at least once. Covid is still around, since it evolves quickly to bypass immunity and spreads too fast to be eradicated, but as something that people get say yearly, or at a rate more similar to a cold or the flu, you get in this sort of balance where you're always immune enough to survive the next one and evolve your immunity along the way. The issue is getting to this state with the least casualty, and vaccines are best for that. I checked for other pandemics to see how they ended, and they all seem to end the same way, by reaching large herd immunity either through vaccination, or just everyone catching it and having the weak die off, and the survivors pass on immunity to the next generation.

a45a33s 5y ago
>This was a possibility at some point, but it required a very high number of people to get vaccinated quickly, before more variants. it required vaccines that actually slow the spread of disease

mleonhard 5y ago

I should not have written "Vaccines were never expected to stop the pandemic." Vaccines were expected to stop the pandemic. PRC, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and other countries had SARS-CoV-1 in 2003 [0]. It kills 9% of people who catch it, even young people. Their governments performed effective contact tracing and forced quarantining. Everyone in those countries was careful not to catch or spread the disease. It nearly became a pandemic, but the people stopped it. I hoped that Americans would do the same with SARS-CoV-2 (covid). Instead, we went half the pandemic without a pandemic expert (epidemiologist) on the National Covid Task Force [1]. Our national leader downplayed the pandemic, refused to be careful not to catch or spread the disease, caught the disease, exposed his political opponents to it during debate, recovered, and consistently undermined and contradicted our national pandemic experts (CDC) [2]. Our government contact tracing programs have been underfunded and ineffective. Only schools performed effective contact tracing. Quarantine is not enforced or even checked. There are no fines or prison time for sick people who go to work or to gatherings and spread the disease. Many Americans refused to take simple precautions to avoid catching or transmitting the disease. Some places even banned such precautions [3]! About 20% of adult Americans refused the vaccine [4]. Americans refused to cooperate and achieve herd immunity. Do not blame epidemiologists for telling us what was possible. We should blame callous & incompetent politicians for undermining our medical professionals, blame callous & greedy media companies for targeting medical advice with their anti-establishment dogma, and blame callous & gullible Americans for refusing vaccines and carelessly spreading the disease. Cities with cooperative people did achieve herd immunity. For example, San Francisco did in 2021-06 [5]. Then Delta and Omicron variants arrived. They break through existing immunity. USA now has 700,000 new cases of Omicron per day [6]. So we should reach herd immunity for Omicron in March. Then the pandemic will be over for us, unless another breakthrough variant arises. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Coronavirus_Task_Force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Coronavirus_Task_F... [2] https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-the-fall-of-the-cdc https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-the-fall-of-the-cd... [3] https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/governor-abbott-issues-executive-order-prohibiting-government-entities-from-mandating-masks https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/governor-abbott-issues-execu... [4] https://usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-states/ https://usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-st... [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_the_San_Francisco_Bay_Area#Cases_by_county_over_time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_the_San_F... [6] https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?areas=usa&cumulative=0&logScale=0&per100K=0&startDate=2021-06-01&values=cases https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?areas=usa&cumulative=0&...