6 ms·

They’re not making the pig more human, they’re removing the markers of ‘foreign’ that would make it an immune target. So it’s a nice vanilla organ that minimall

They’re not making the pig more human, they’re removing the markers of ‘foreign’ that would make it an immune target. So it’s a nice vanilla organ that minimally attracts the attention of the immune system.

dnautics 5y ago
On the other hand (and I am being flippant... Slightly) how do you know that removing this one gene doesn't unlock consciousness?
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  I mean pigs are already "conscious" on some level, I'm sure.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- serf 5y ago
  >how do you know that removing this one gene doesn't unlock consciousness? i'm not the poster you're replying to, but for me the answer is this : consciousness appears to me to be a constellation of traits rather than a trait itself that would be easily acquired with a genetic shift. One could then say : 'What if the one we flip is the thing that finishes the constellation of traits that activates consciousness?' , and sadly I must confess that I believe that if that were to happen to an entity without sufficient communications methods that it would probably remain unknown and subject to whatever experiences whatever sensory organs it may have provides it, while we remain entirely unaware for some time. Also, a point that I agree upon by the poster who replied to you with me ; we don't seem to hold conscious entities in very high regard -- only human ones.
  - VRay 5y ago
    relevant SMBC: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/intelligence-2 https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/intelligence-2
- ioseph 5y ago
  I'd definitely think of pigs conscious given they can play video games: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56023720 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56023720
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > how do you know that removing this one gene doesn't unlock consciousness? The words you're looking for are sentience or even sapience.
- pazimzadeh 5y ago
  A strange idea but theoretically possible. Although it wasn't one of the genes targeted in this study, humans are the only animals which have the Neu4Ac form of the sialic acid sugar, instead of Neu5Ac, and the brain is one of the regions that is most heavily sialiated in humans and could be one of the things that sets us apart. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7153325/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7153325/
TulliusCicero 5y ago
According to another article: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2022/01/10/human-pig-heart-transplant/9152951002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2022/01/10/human-... > Three genes were turned off that might otherwise have triggered an immediate immune rejection – the recognition of a pig organ as coming from a different species. Six human genes were added to prevent blood from coagulating in the heart, improve molecular compatibility and reduce the risk of rejection. > One final gene was turned off to keep the pig from growing too large. So they actually did make the pig a tiny bit human.
- make3 5y ago
  imho complaining about anything that doesn't touch the brain is really pushing it
323 5y ago
Just removing some sugars can't possibly work, since the pig heart will lack correct MHC class I molecules, which will make it a target. So the patient will need permanent immune-suppression.
- mhalle 5y ago
  Plenty of transplant recipients from deceased or living human donors are on permanent immunosuppression. Depending on the organ and the person, day-to-day life can be almost completely normal. Source: I am a liver transplant recipient.

dnautics 5y ago

On the other hand (and I am being flippant... Slightly) how do you know that removing this one gene doesn't unlock consciousness?

TulliusCicero 5y ago
I mean pigs are already "conscious" on some level, I'm sure.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
serf 5y ago
>how do you know that removing this one gene doesn't unlock consciousness? i'm not the poster you're replying to, but for me the answer is this : consciousness appears to me to be a constellation of traits rather than a trait itself that would be easily acquired with a genetic shift. One could then say : 'What if the one we flip is the thing that finishes the constellation of traits that activates consciousness?' , and sadly I must confess that I believe that if that were to happen to an entity without sufficient communications methods that it would probably remain unknown and subject to whatever experiences whatever sensory organs it may have provides it, while we remain entirely unaware for some time. Also, a point that I agree upon by the poster who replied to you with me ; we don't seem to hold conscious entities in very high regard -- only human ones.
- VRay 5y ago
  relevant SMBC: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/intelligence-2 https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/intelligence-2
ioseph 5y ago
I'd definitely think of pigs conscious given they can play video games: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56023720 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56023720
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> how do you know that removing this one gene doesn't unlock consciousness? The words you're looking for are sentience or even sapience.
pazimzadeh 5y ago
A strange idea but theoretically possible. Although it wasn't one of the genes targeted in this study, humans are the only animals which have the Neu4Ac form of the sialic acid sugar, instead of Neu5Ac, and the brain is one of the regions that is most heavily sialiated in humans and could be one of the things that sets us apart. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7153325/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7153325/

TulliusCicero 5y ago

According to another article: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2022/01/10/human-pig-heart-transplant/9152951002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2022/01/10/human-... > Three genes were turned off that might otherwise have triggered an immediate immune rejection – the recognition of a pig organ as coming from a different species. Six human genes were added to prevent blood from coagulating in the heart, improve molecular compatibility and reduce the risk of rejection. > One final gene was turned off to keep the pig from growing too large. So they actually did make the pig a tiny bit human.

make3 5y ago
imho complaining about anything that doesn't touch the brain is really pushing it

323 5y ago

Just removing some sugars can't possibly work, since the pig heart will lack correct MHC class I molecules, which will make it a target. So the patient will need permanent immune-suppression.

mhalle 5y ago
Plenty of transplant recipients from deceased or living human donors are on permanent immunosuppression. Depending on the organ and the person, day-to-day life can be almost completely normal. Source: I am a liver transplant recipient.