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Unless I misunderstood, someone I know from one of these 2 states recently told me their grandparent wanted to be disposed of like that. They said their generat

Unless I misunderstood, someone I know from one of these 2 states recently told me their grandparent wanted to be disposed of like that. They said their generation or their parents don't believe in such practices. According to the below article, some communities do practice dumping body in Ganges. "He further informed that the practise of dead body being disposed in the rivers is prevalent in two particular stretches in central/eastern U.P. and the epicentre of which is in Kanpur Unnao region in central U.P and Banaras-Ghazipur area in eastern U.P" https://indianexpress.com/article/india/practice-of-bodies-being-dumped-in-rivers-prevalent-in-up-state-official-tells-centre-7334881/ https://indianexpress.com/article/india/practice-of-bodies-b... There was also another incident in 2015 from the same Unnao region where they found more than 100 bodies in Ganges. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unnao_dead_bodies_row https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unnao_dead_bodies_row

srean 5y ago
From the link that you pointed to Police officials of Unnao have offered an explanation that the bodies were of "people who were dumped in the river or buried on the banks after their families could not afford a proper cremation." You are trying hard to give the story a spin that dead bodies in the river in such numbers is nothing notable. Government contractors pressed into removing commemorative burial markers less they be counted by drones https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiLzIuMsnW0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiLzIuMsnW0 Let me find something in English to give context on these shallow graves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q6hYu3EsC0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q6hYu3EsC0 (will give viewers an idea of the mindboggling scale of the phenomenon) The following videos are not in English but you should be able to get a sense of the numbers by looking at them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALO0VjfxXDA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALO0VjfxXDA (pardon the annoying and unnecessary dramatization music) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DWWeOt4jWM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DWWeOt4jWM
- nonamechicken 5y ago
  I am not disputing that people were interring the bodies because they cannot afford cremation. But is that proof that all of them died of covid? In the last video you linked (Burka Dutt one), the pandit gives 2 reasons for more bodies on the river bed: 1. fear of covid 2. cremation charges went up due to covid, which in turn caused people to inter the bodies of non-covid deaths as well. My point of replying to the original comment which used dead bodies in India's river as a sign of under counting was to question the idea of comparing the current situation to Spanish flu (which killed upto 17-18 million in India). What happened in UP/Bihar (news says up to 2000 bodies were found) is an isolated incident, specific to those states. Can that be used as an indication that the remaining 26 states are hiding, since these 2 are one of the most poorest states in India? I should be hearing news about discarded bodies from other states also right? > Government contractors pressed into removing commemorative burial markers less they be counted by drones Since you posted local YouTube channels, do you know how they handled the new dead bodies after the news about this incident broke out?
  - srean 5y ago
    > But is that proof that all of them died of covid? All was never even the hypotheses, that is a strawman argument. The hypotheses is that this incident, of thousands of bodies floating down the river and buried on the sand bars, is a striking, once in a century phenomena given the numbers. If this was normal we would have seen such numbers prior to covid. The major reason, as you had noted as well, is the breakdown of the infrastructure for dealing with deaths by a state that is not competent enough to prevent them. Some state did far better than others. You had mentioned two, Tamil Nadu and Kerala. Note that the population of UP + Bihar is the same order of magnitude as a middle sized European countries. One does not need other states to contribute if these two are badly hit.
valarauko 5y ago
Like I mentioned at the end of the initial comment, some families do indeed inter the bodies directly in the river, unable to afford the cost of cremation - this is also mentioned at the end of the wiki article you linked. This isn't new or surprising information. If there are communities that do this as a matter of routine, it's certainly not a significant source considering the 100s of millions who live along the river, where these community's dead mostly disappear without record into the river. For what its worth, it's certainly not a standard practice for the region. If bodies were present at significantly larger numbers in 2020, it suggests that either communities that do not traditionally practice interring in the river were doing it out of desperation, or that the traditional communities suffered significantly more deaths in the Delta wave, both of which are troubling concepts. The other possibility is that these were unclaimed bodies unceremoniously discarded by the civic administration, and the angle perhaps most appealing to those opposed to the current political dispensation. EDIT: regarding the anecdote about a grandparent asking for this, there's a lot of context we don't know. Rather than a traditional practice, it might simply be a comment based out of frustration about the expense & bother to the family for a "standard" funeral. I also have family from the region and I've never heard of this as a standard routine widespread practice. For the most disadvantaged communities, I can understand it.
- nonamechicken 5y ago
  Regarding the grandparent comment, they are definitely not poor. They have a lot of money. One of the comments below linked to a couple of videos, one of which is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DWWeOt4jWM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DWWeOt4jWM In this, Burka Dutt is interviewing a local pandit. He says he is not sure if these are all covid deaths. He gives 2 reasons for the increase in number of bodies: 1. fear of covid 2. increase in cremation costs due to increase in covid deaths. So, those bodies are not necessarily all due to covid deaths. The video shows a lot of bodies cremated on the river bank. Once the water level rises during rain, the pandit says they will all float into the river. Also learned that some inter the bodies of infants and unmarried women directly into the river. This may explain the 2015 incident where they found more than 100 bodies, mostly of unmarried girls and children.

srean 5y ago

From the link that you pointed to Police officials of Unnao have offered an explanation that the bodies were of "people who were dumped in the river or buried on the banks after their families could not afford a proper cremation." You are trying hard to give the story a spin that dead bodies in the river in such numbers is nothing notable. Government contractors pressed into removing commemorative burial markers less they be counted by drones https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiLzIuMsnW0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiLzIuMsnW0 Let me find something in English to give context on these shallow graves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q6hYu3EsC0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q6hYu3EsC0 (will give viewers an idea of the mindboggling scale of the phenomenon) The following videos are not in English but you should be able to get a sense of the numbers by looking at them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALO0VjfxXDA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALO0VjfxXDA (pardon the annoying and unnecessary dramatization music) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DWWeOt4jWM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DWWeOt4jWM

nonamechicken 5y ago
I am not disputing that people were interring the bodies because they cannot afford cremation. But is that proof that all of them died of covid? In the last video you linked (Burka Dutt one), the pandit gives 2 reasons for more bodies on the river bed: 1. fear of covid 2. cremation charges went up due to covid, which in turn caused people to inter the bodies of non-covid deaths as well. My point of replying to the original comment which used dead bodies in India's river as a sign of under counting was to question the idea of comparing the current situation to Spanish flu (which killed upto 17-18 million in India). What happened in UP/Bihar (news says up to 2000 bodies were found) is an isolated incident, specific to those states. Can that be used as an indication that the remaining 26 states are hiding, since these 2 are one of the most poorest states in India? I should be hearing news about discarded bodies from other states also right? > Government contractors pressed into removing commemorative burial markers less they be counted by drones Since you posted local YouTube channels, do you know how they handled the new dead bodies after the news about this incident broke out?
- srean 5y ago
  > But is that proof that all of them died of covid? All was never even the hypotheses, that is a strawman argument. The hypotheses is that this incident, of thousands of bodies floating down the river and buried on the sand bars, is a striking, once in a century phenomena given the numbers. If this was normal we would have seen such numbers prior to covid. The major reason, as you had noted as well, is the breakdown of the infrastructure for dealing with deaths by a state that is not competent enough to prevent them. Some state did far better than others. You had mentioned two, Tamil Nadu and Kerala. Note that the population of UP + Bihar is the same order of magnitude as a middle sized European countries. One does not need other states to contribute if these two are badly hit.

valarauko 5y ago

Like I mentioned at the end of the initial comment, some families do indeed inter the bodies directly in the river, unable to afford the cost of cremation - this is also mentioned at the end of the wiki article you linked. This isn't new or surprising information. If there are communities that do this as a matter of routine, it's certainly not a significant source considering the 100s of millions who live along the river, where these community's dead mostly disappear without record into the river. For what its worth, it's certainly not a standard practice for the region. If bodies were present at significantly larger numbers in 2020, it suggests that either communities that do not traditionally practice interring in the river were doing it out of desperation, or that the traditional communities suffered significantly more deaths in the Delta wave, both of which are troubling concepts. The other possibility is that these were unclaimed bodies unceremoniously discarded by the civic administration, and the angle perhaps most appealing to those opposed to the current political dispensation. EDIT: regarding the anecdote about a grandparent asking for this, there's a lot of context we don't know. Rather than a traditional practice, it might simply be a comment based out of frustration about the expense & bother to the family for a "standard" funeral. I also have family from the region and I've never heard of this as a standard routine widespread practice. For the most disadvantaged communities, I can understand it.

nonamechicken 5y ago
Regarding the grandparent comment, they are definitely not poor. They have a lot of money. One of the comments below linked to a couple of videos, one of which is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DWWeOt4jWM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DWWeOt4jWM In this, Burka Dutt is interviewing a local pandit. He says he is not sure if these are all covid deaths. He gives 2 reasons for the increase in number of bodies: 1. fear of covid 2. increase in cremation costs due to increase in covid deaths. So, those bodies are not necessarily all due to covid deaths. The video shows a lot of bodies cremated on the river bank. Once the water level rises during rain, the pandit says they will all float into the river. Also learned that some inter the bodies of infants and unmarried women directly into the river. This may explain the 2015 incident where they found more than 100 bodies, mostly of unmarried girls and children.