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"...consideration for personal liberty has gone by the wayside..." Can you truly say these things with a straight face, in light of the countless laws banning

"...consideration for personal liberty has gone by the wayside..." Can you truly say these things with a straight face, in light of the countless laws banning voluntary consumption of drugs and the millions of harsh prison sentences that have been handed out for breaking those laws? People literally lose their freedom - they are put in poorly-maintained cages - for exercising their personal liberty in that fashion. That has been standard procedure in this country for generations with little dissent. Yet the voices that seem the loudest against vaccine mandates (voices that barely exists for the dozen or so other vaccine mandates over the generations) don't seem to be speaking up to these far more grievous and damaging violations of personal liberty.

halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
No, the freedumb that the commenter you're replying to only exists in their head. Freedom is whatever they want it to be and nothing at the same time. Compare the US's COVID response to China and then try to talk about freedoms.
- mardifoufs 5y ago
  Or maybe the commenter is also against the war on drugs? And yeah I'm sure China had more "freedumb" than the US. Actually I'm not surprised that someone who uses China as a positive example would be the type to say "freedumb" unironically as if it's actually a negative thing to want more... freedom.
  - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
    I wasn't using China as a positive example, I was using it as a contract in the negative. As in they don't have freedom during COVID, as they're literally locked into their homes. The United States has had and continues to have "freedom" even in face of the mandates.
hnuser847 5y ago
Both liberals and conservatives are massive hypocrites. Neither ideology has a consistent set of beliefs when it comes to personal liberty. Both will use arguments from personal liberty when it's for something they support and will conveniently forgot about those arguments for issues they don't support. Liberals support "my body, my choice" when it comes to abortions, but they don't want you to have a choice over whether or not to get the vaccine. Conservatives support "my body, my choice" when it comes to vaccines, but don't want to you have a choice over whether or not to get an abortion. There, it's settled. You're all hypocrites. And for the record, I'm triple vaxxed, anti-mandate, pro-choice, and think all drugs should be legalized.
- TimTheTinker 5y ago
  > Liberals support "my body, my choice" when it comes to abortions, but they don't want you to have a choice over whether or not to get the vaccine. Conservatives support "my body, my choice" when it comes to vaccines, but don't want to you have a choice over whether or not to get an abortion. But when it comes to abortion, it's not "my body, my choice", according to pro-life advocates. It's two bodies, one of which is not yours. There's more nuance in these discussions than can be reduced to a slogan or talking point. "Freedom" ought to map to what gives people the most personal liberty possible while restraining evil and its proliferation. But pursuing that requires defining "evil" which maps directly onto worldviews -- and we land squarely back at square one. We all may be hypocrites in some way, but the real problem is that we don't agree on what is good and evil -- or rather, that a sizable portion of the population (or all of it) is wrong on that most important question. Modern US politics is what it is because of strongly differing worldviews.
- skyde 5y ago
  What is your definition of mandate? Im also anti-mandate but certain job should require you to wash your hands with soap and be vaccinated to keep your job (teacher, nurse, doctor ..) but nobody is forcing you to choose those jobs.
- bradlys 5y ago
  This is true with almost any ideology to some extent though when you use reductive arguments like that. My body my choice to put C4 explosives all over it and detonate it in a crowded area. Yet - who supports that? Probably no one. Also - the Covid vaccine is really more like religion in that - most parents are fine with vaccinating their children. But like religion - now they’re choosing which vaccines (gods) they don’t believe in and it mostly comes down to tradition. There’s almost no logical thought in it.

halfmatthalfcat 5y ago

No, the freedumb that the commenter you're replying to only exists in their head. Freedom is whatever they want it to be and nothing at the same time. Compare the US's COVID response to China and then try to talk about freedoms.

mardifoufs 5y ago
Or maybe the commenter is also against the war on drugs? And yeah I'm sure China had more "freedumb" than the US. Actually I'm not surprised that someone who uses China as a positive example would be the type to say "freedumb" unironically as if it's actually a negative thing to want more... freedom.
- halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
  I wasn't using China as a positive example, I was using it as a contract in the negative. As in they don't have freedom during COVID, as they're literally locked into their homes. The United States has had and continues to have "freedom" even in face of the mandates.

hnuser847 5y ago

Both liberals and conservatives are massive hypocrites. Neither ideology has a consistent set of beliefs when it comes to personal liberty. Both will use arguments from personal liberty when it's for something they support and will conveniently forgot about those arguments for issues they don't support. Liberals support "my body, my choice" when it comes to abortions, but they don't want you to have a choice over whether or not to get the vaccine. Conservatives support "my body, my choice" when it comes to vaccines, but don't want to you have a choice over whether or not to get an abortion. There, it's settled. You're all hypocrites. And for the record, I'm triple vaxxed, anti-mandate, pro-choice, and think all drugs should be legalized.

TimTheTinker 5y ago
> Liberals support "my body, my choice" when it comes to abortions, but they don't want you to have a choice over whether or not to get the vaccine. Conservatives support "my body, my choice" when it comes to vaccines, but don't want to you have a choice over whether or not to get an abortion. But when it comes to abortion, it's not "my body, my choice", according to pro-life advocates. It's two bodies, one of which is not yours. There's more nuance in these discussions than can be reduced to a slogan or talking point. "Freedom" ought to map to what gives people the most personal liberty possible while restraining evil and its proliferation. But pursuing that requires defining "evil" which maps directly onto worldviews -- and we land squarely back at square one. We all may be hypocrites in some way, but the real problem is that we don't agree on what is good and evil -- or rather, that a sizable portion of the population (or all of it) is wrong on that most important question. Modern US politics is what it is because of strongly differing worldviews.
skyde 5y ago
What is your definition of mandate? Im also anti-mandate but certain job should require you to wash your hands with soap and be vaccinated to keep your job (teacher, nurse, doctor ..) but nobody is forcing you to choose those jobs.
bradlys 5y ago
This is true with almost any ideology to some extent though when you use reductive arguments like that. My body my choice to put C4 explosives all over it and detonate it in a crowded area. Yet - who supports that? Probably no one. Also - the Covid vaccine is really more like religion in that - most parents are fine with vaccinating their children. But like religion - now they’re choosing which vaccines (gods) they don’t believe in and it mostly comes down to tradition. There’s almost no logical thought in it.