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> If Apple wanted to make a public ad lambasting the carriers for undermining people's privacy, the damage would also force them to bend. That ad would be cand

> If Apple wanted to make a public ad lambasting the carriers for undermining people's privacy, the damage would also force them to bend. That ad would be candy to the Apple PR team trying to push the “Apple is secure and respects your privacy” campaign. I bet we’ll see Apple use the court of public opinion here, and win with it.

SloopJon 5y ago
I'm trying to think of a case in which Apple has used public opinion in this way. The closest I can come up with is Adobe Flash, but Apple was the one blocking a product on its platform then.
- panny 5y ago
  >What's a computer? Apple trys to manipulate public opinion constantly.
  - JMS2021 5y ago
    A computer is a device where you can work on, unlike a tablet, unless you are in a band or paint digitally.
smoldesu 5y ago
If Apple escalates this into a dirt-flinging war, I don't think any domestic carriers would take offense at reminding the public that Apple is the only one among them that still does business with China. But neither one will escalate things, because both Apple and every US cell carrier have so many skeletons in their closet that trying to call one another out wouldn't just be hypocritical, it would be mutually assured destruction.
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  Nah - that wouldn't work. Apple would just point out that they use networking gear made in China. Brilliant.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    My point is that carriers and manufacturers have so much dirt on each other that trying to escalate things would just hurt them both. The reason why Apple (and mobile carriers, for that matter) don't take swings at each other is because they both need the other to look as pristine as possible to sell units. They have a mutual interest in looking good together, and neither Apple nor the carriers have any vested interest in breaking that relationship.
    - thebradbain 5y ago
      I don't think the American public would particularly care – and some would probably even support – that Apple does business with China. If that's the best the carriers can throw at Apple, versus Apple cutting them off from the single device doing the heaviest lifting to keep them relevant, then yikes.
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        Oh, that's certainly not the worst they'd grab for, but more of an example where they can call their bluff. Cell carriers and hardware manufacturers alike get bent over backwards for compliance in the United States, trying to assert that you're "the private one" is just going to get you called on every other front. It's not even a question that these companies do shady things, the real question is more about the lengths they'd go to diminish their competition. Again though, rupturing this conversation is mutually assured destruction. The reason why Apple won't call T-Mobile's bluff is because it's better for them to look like a symbiotic company than an adversarial one, and T-Mobile can get away with this because data protection in the US is a moot-point anyways. It's about as unremarkable as news gets. Hell, Apple was even nice enough to give T-Mobile a special error message when you try to use Private Relay: > "Your cellular plan doesn’t support iCloud Private Relay. With Private Relay turned off, this network can monitor your internet activity, and your IP address is not hidden from known trackers or websites." I wouldn't call it security theater if I couldn't see the curtains on the left and right.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      It's strange that you think Americans would equate "people in China are suffering" and "X is spying on me". Your suggested response doesn't change my mind at all, it seems quite desperate and pathetic. And I want to see a stronger moral stance on trade with China.
- sebzim4500 5y ago
  I don't think that would be effective, everyone already knows that Apple builds their phones in China, it says on the back. The fact that your cell carrier wants so badly to spy on you that they are willing to go to go to bat with Apple will, however, surprise some people.

SloopJon 5y ago

I'm trying to think of a case in which Apple has used public opinion in this way. The closest I can come up with is Adobe Flash, but Apple was the one blocking a product on its platform then.

panny 5y ago
>What's a computer? Apple trys to manipulate public opinion constantly.
- JMS2021 5y ago
  A computer is a device where you can work on, unlike a tablet, unless you are in a band or paint digitally.

smoldesu 5y ago

If Apple escalates this into a dirt-flinging war, I don't think any domestic carriers would take offense at reminding the public that Apple is the only one among them that still does business with China. But neither one will escalate things, because both Apple and every US cell carrier have so many skeletons in their closet that trying to call one another out wouldn't just be hypocritical, it would be mutually assured destruction.

gjsman-1000 5y ago
Nah - that wouldn't work. Apple would just point out that they use networking gear made in China. Brilliant.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  My point is that carriers and manufacturers have so much dirt on each other that trying to escalate things would just hurt them both. The reason why Apple (and mobile carriers, for that matter) don't take swings at each other is because they both need the other to look as pristine as possible to sell units. They have a mutual interest in looking good together, and neither Apple nor the carriers have any vested interest in breaking that relationship.
  - thebradbain 5y ago
    I don't think the American public would particularly care – and some would probably even support – that Apple does business with China. If that's the best the carriers can throw at Apple, versus Apple cutting them off from the single device doing the heaviest lifting to keep them relevant, then yikes.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      Oh, that's certainly not the worst they'd grab for, but more of an example where they can call their bluff. Cell carriers and hardware manufacturers alike get bent over backwards for compliance in the United States, trying to assert that you're "the private one" is just going to get you called on every other front. It's not even a question that these companies do shady things, the real question is more about the lengths they'd go to diminish their competition. Again though, rupturing this conversation is mutually assured destruction. The reason why Apple won't call T-Mobile's bluff is because it's better for them to look like a symbiotic company than an adversarial one, and T-Mobile can get away with this because data protection in the US is a moot-point anyways. It's about as unremarkable as news gets. Hell, Apple was even nice enough to give T-Mobile a special error message when you try to use Private Relay: > "Your cellular plan doesn’t support iCloud Private Relay. With Private Relay turned off, this network can monitor your internet activity, and your IP address is not hidden from known trackers or websites." I wouldn't call it security theater if I couldn't see the curtains on the left and right.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    It's strange that you think Americans would equate "people in China are suffering" and "X is spying on me". Your suggested response doesn't change my mind at all, it seems quite desperate and pathetic. And I want to see a stronger moral stance on trade with China.
sebzim4500 5y ago
I don't think that would be effective, everyone already knows that Apple builds their phones in China, it says on the back. The fact that your cell carrier wants so badly to spy on you that they are willing to go to go to bat with Apple will, however, surprise some people.