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I used to drink a lot of the crappy stuff as well but as soon as you know the taste of real coffee (be it an excellent 3-minute 1:15 V60 single origin or a doub

I used to drink a lot of the crappy stuff as well but as soon as you know the taste of real coffee (be it an excellent 3-minute 1:15 V60 single origin or a double shot espresso fresh from the machine from a local specialty roasting place) it just doesn't go down anymore. While it wasn't really much of a caffeine thing for me, I did simply like the taste and the fact that it's warm, but once you see it for the watery slurry from a marginal blend of "we found some beans on a boat" factory that it is, your taste in coffee gets upgraded and as a result you end up drinking less because the good stuff is not always within reach. Most people I meet at high quality espresso places have had a similar journey, generally from the crappy supermarket pre-ground stuff, to paper coffee pads to metal coffee pods to actual coffee at which point even the memory of an amazing Costa Rica natural at 93°C from a week ago is better than whatever an automatic machine can give you. For me, the caffeine doesn't do the whole 'boost' thing, doesn't impede sleep either. Coffee does make me dry out faster and that's something other people tend to forget, mistaking a headache for coffee-related instead of dehydration. But I can often taste the difference in decaf processed coffee and I general it does a disservice to the bean. On top of everything else, you don't really need a lot of coffee, and if large volumes of warm liquid is a joy in itself, we have things like infusions (ginger, mint, fruits, but also Rooibos) that doesn't really "do" anything but definitely make for a tasty hydrating drink. Right now I just manually grind my coffee at home (weighing it of course and making sure the grind size is correct - coffee snobbery makes it more work to get a cup you like), and pour a V60 or make an aeropress. Whenever I do want an espresso I'll go outside and visit my favourite espresso bar that can pull shots I'll never be able to make myself (unless I become a full-time barista I suppose).

credit_guy 5y ago
> as soon as you know the taste of real coffee De gustibus non disputandum est. I am one of those who tasted "real coffee". I read books about "real coffee", I bought equipment, I tried this and that, I went to coffee shops with stellar reviews (I live in NYC). I just apparently don't like what aficionados rave about. Instead, I used to love the ordinary Peet's coffee that I could buy in my office building. They don't sell it anymore, and I switched jobs anyway. Now I'm fine with Starbucks. I simply drink the coffee for the caffeine and not the taste. I guess 90% of the people do the same.
- oneplane 5y ago
  > I am one of those who tasted "real coffee". I don't think those words mean the same thing to us. There is no "official" real coffee or what someone else can decide is the best coffee for you. That'd be like someone deciding for you that apple juice is the only real juice. It's about finding something that interests you and has properties you value. > I simply drink the coffee for the caffeine and not the taste. So you don't have much of a stake or (refined) opinion but you felt it necessary to tell everyone how much you don't care?
xcambar 5y ago
Coffee snobs are leagues ahead in terms of snobbery of any other snobbery I know. And I am from a wine heavy culture, so born and raised in snobbery. And your comment highlights everything that can be irritating about coffee enthusiasts. Every paragraph is quote-worthy. Almost climactic. I don't know what has triggered such an elite-like culture in coffee but it never ceases to amaze/amuse.
- fleddr 5y ago
  It's pure boredom. Compare it to BBQ culture. In simpler times, one would have a cheap metal grill and throw some raw meat on it. By the time it almost turns black, you'd eat it. Now people have a design baking skirt, a machine that can grill 50 things at once, temperature management, a slow cook schedule lasting days, hipster recipes for the sauce, and this doesn't even begin to describe what is now a "science". Back to coffee, the standard stuff is fine. Most machines at work now grind beans at the spot and mixes it under high pressure. It's much better compared to the work coffee from decades ago where you could see the bottom of the cup. The only meaningful difference with high-end coffee is that those have a softer, smoother taste. Less bitter. That's it. Yet you'd only notice if you pay attention, drink your coffee strong, with no milk, and very little or no sugar. To mess with me, my g/f regularly switches beans in our machine at home, and won't tell me that she did. Unknowingly, I was exposed to many types of beans. I did not notice any change whatsoever. Why not? Because I don't pay attention to coffee when I drink it. I don't analyze it, I just drink it. One time she did directly ask: how's the coffee? I asked why...did you change it? Yes. As I had already drank it and didn't notice a difference, I made up a reply: does seem to taste a little bit better. "Well, they're the cheap ones". Ok then. Feeling like an idiot, I then started to pay attention and actually analyze the taste, which is something a normal person doesn't do. I can now tell the beans apart consistently, without prior knowledge. But only by actively focusing on it. The only detectable change is softness. The problem is, now you're aware of it, and internally associate it as superior. And this is how new coffee snobs are born.
  - serf 5y ago
    >The only meaningful difference with high-end coffee is that those have a softer, smoother taste. Less bitter. That's it. respectfully disagree, and i'm not even a coffee snob -- just a life long addict who doesn't analyze, just drinks. Wine tastes like shit to me, but i'd never be so sure that my interpretation of it was correct that i'd try to explain why wine snobs exist. I understand there all wines have nuances that I may miss as someone who is inexperienced with wine and without a preference towards it. Coffee , more so than most other plant products, has a wide variety of tastes. How could it not? It's a plant grown in varied areas with varied problems, varied soils, and then roasted or treated in varied manners. We disagree, I understand I won't convince here, but I can confess my own experience : coffee is a spectrum of flavors , and not everyone has the tongue (or time) to notice -- but to dismiss it as 'pure boredom' is something I absolutely disagree with. You don't need a 12kUSD espresso rig to notice that there are more than two taste profiles in the world of coffee.
Fnoord 5y ago
> to paper coffee pads They're plastic, actually, but the other ones you mention are worse. > we have things like infusions (ginger, mint, fruits, but also Rooibos) that doesn't really "do" anything but definitely make for a tasty hydrating drink. Rooibos, for certain, 'does' a lot. It lowers your blood pressure. You can use it as a downer though it might be unnecessary if you don't use caffeine otherwise.

credit_guy 5y ago

> as soon as you know the taste of real coffee De gustibus non disputandum est. I am one of those who tasted "real coffee". I read books about "real coffee", I bought equipment, I tried this and that, I went to coffee shops with stellar reviews (I live in NYC). I just apparently don't like what aficionados rave about. Instead, I used to love the ordinary Peet's coffee that I could buy in my office building. They don't sell it anymore, and I switched jobs anyway. Now I'm fine with Starbucks. I simply drink the coffee for the caffeine and not the taste. I guess 90% of the people do the same.

oneplane 5y ago
> I am one of those who tasted "real coffee". I don't think those words mean the same thing to us. There is no "official" real coffee or what someone else can decide is the best coffee for you. That'd be like someone deciding for you that apple juice is the only real juice. It's about finding something that interests you and has properties you value. > I simply drink the coffee for the caffeine and not the taste. So you don't have much of a stake or (refined) opinion but you felt it necessary to tell everyone how much you don't care?

xcambar 5y ago

Coffee snobs are leagues ahead in terms of snobbery of any other snobbery I know. And I am from a wine heavy culture, so born and raised in snobbery. And your comment highlights everything that can be irritating about coffee enthusiasts. Every paragraph is quote-worthy. Almost climactic. I don't know what has triggered such an elite-like culture in coffee but it never ceases to amaze/amuse.

fleddr 5y ago
It's pure boredom. Compare it to BBQ culture. In simpler times, one would have a cheap metal grill and throw some raw meat on it. By the time it almost turns black, you'd eat it. Now people have a design baking skirt, a machine that can grill 50 things at once, temperature management, a slow cook schedule lasting days, hipster recipes for the sauce, and this doesn't even begin to describe what is now a "science". Back to coffee, the standard stuff is fine. Most machines at work now grind beans at the spot and mixes it under high pressure. It's much better compared to the work coffee from decades ago where you could see the bottom of the cup. The only meaningful difference with high-end coffee is that those have a softer, smoother taste. Less bitter. That's it. Yet you'd only notice if you pay attention, drink your coffee strong, with no milk, and very little or no sugar. To mess with me, my g/f regularly switches beans in our machine at home, and won't tell me that she did. Unknowingly, I was exposed to many types of beans. I did not notice any change whatsoever. Why not? Because I don't pay attention to coffee when I drink it. I don't analyze it, I just drink it. One time she did directly ask: how's the coffee? I asked why...did you change it? Yes. As I had already drank it and didn't notice a difference, I made up a reply: does seem to taste a little bit better. "Well, they're the cheap ones". Ok then. Feeling like an idiot, I then started to pay attention and actually analyze the taste, which is something a normal person doesn't do. I can now tell the beans apart consistently, without prior knowledge. But only by actively focusing on it. The only detectable change is softness. The problem is, now you're aware of it, and internally associate it as superior. And this is how new coffee snobs are born.
- serf 5y ago
  >The only meaningful difference with high-end coffee is that those have a softer, smoother taste. Less bitter. That's it. respectfully disagree, and i'm not even a coffee snob -- just a life long addict who doesn't analyze, just drinks. Wine tastes like shit to me, but i'd never be so sure that my interpretation of it was correct that i'd try to explain why wine snobs exist. I understand there all wines have nuances that I may miss as someone who is inexperienced with wine and without a preference towards it. Coffee , more so than most other plant products, has a wide variety of tastes. How could it not? It's a plant grown in varied areas with varied problems, varied soils, and then roasted or treated in varied manners. We disagree, I understand I won't convince here, but I can confess my own experience : coffee is a spectrum of flavors , and not everyone has the tongue (or time) to notice -- but to dismiss it as 'pure boredom' is something I absolutely disagree with. You don't need a 12kUSD espresso rig to notice that there are more than two taste profiles in the world of coffee.

Fnoord 5y ago

> to paper coffee pads They're plastic, actually, but the other ones you mention are worse. > we have things like infusions (ginger, mint, fruits, but also Rooibos) that doesn't really "do" anything but definitely make for a tasty hydrating drink. Rooibos, for certain, 'does' a lot. It lowers your blood pressure. You can use it as a downer though it might be unnecessary if you don't use caffeine otherwise.