4 ms·

You can't compare HIV/AIDS to COVID in this simplistic way, including the attitudes and public debate around them, and this comment is dangerously close to some

You can't compare HIV/AIDS to COVID in this simplistic way, including the attitudes and public debate around them, and this comment is dangerously close to some sort of public health version of a Godwin's Law violation. What I remember about HIV in the early 80s was that fear of it fueled a lot of homophobia from those who were ignorant about the disease, certainly to begin with. In fact I remember it originally being seen as a disease that only infected homosexuals and drug addicts - and those being the people who were vilified - which proved to be a fatally uninformed point of view for some. But HIV is, fundamentally, a very different pathogen to COVID. In the 80s HIV was a death sentence: if you were infected with HIV, sooner or later it would develop into AIDS and you would die. However, a relatively small proportion of the population was infected, and it wasn't very transmissible (you had to have sex or other transfer of body fluids, such as a blood transfusion). Nowadays, HIV treatments have improved to the extent that in developed countries most people receiving treatment can expect to lead a fairly normal and full life, and to live a normal lifetime (ignoring other causes of death that might intervene). I'm not sure what the story is in less developed countries, but I imagine it's not as encouraging. COVID has never close to that deadly, but is far more transmissible. It's that high transmission rate that has seen so many people die, even though these represent a small fraction of those infected. And this time, nobody is being vilified for their sexual preference, or their gender identity, or any other characteristic that is fundamental to who they are and over which they may not have had much if any agency. You might argue that drug addicts have agency but they don't have very much once they're hooked. No, with COVID, people are being vilified for wilful ignorance, which is a choice: a conscious decision, and one that - in this case - has a substantial negative impact on their surrounding community and the world at large. I can't tell you how effective, or not, that vilification is, but I can tell you that a lot of people - myself included - who are fully vaxxed, boosted, and will gladly accept further vaccinations (and would also welcome effective treatments for those who are sick), are getting enormously fed up of having restrictions placed on our lives which, to a non-trivial extent, are being propagated as a result of people who are spreading misinformation and choosing not to get vaccinated. I'm not old - somewhere in the middle - but the remaining count of the best years of my life is finite and even in the best possible case very limited, so I'm getting sick to death of people telling me what I can and can't do with them. I even agree with you that pointing fingers and calling names won't change anything, but it doesn't matter. Lots of people have had their fill and the anti-vaxxers are a convenient, and frankly not entirely unjust, target for their rage and frustration, which pays to a key point: the rest of us, the "vaxxed and done", or whatever you want to call us, will eventually tire of allowing the lowest common denominator to set the agenda. That's not a threat: it's just a reality, just who we are. Eventually we'll tire of the yoke and throw it off.

wonderwonder 5y ago
"are getting enormously fed up of having restrictions placed on our lives which, to a non-trivial extent, are being propagated as a result of people who are spreading misinformation and choosing not to get vaccinated" I am assuming you are a tech worker and can find a remote job. Just move somewhere with no restrictions. There are essentially zero restrictions in states like Florida or Texas. I live in one of those states and aside from maybe 35% of people voluntarily wearing masks there are few signs of the pandemic. I am not denying that people are getting sick I'm just saying that if you dont want to deal with the restrictions then there are options.
- bartread 5y ago
  Sure, I work in tech, but like plenty of other people who work in tech, it's not as simple as "just move somewhere else." I've only ever driven through Texas, and it's a big state, so I can't comment on what it would be like to live there but I properly detest the climate in Florida, which I'd find impossible to tolerate, and the topography there is extremely uncompelling. Still, I suppose who doesn't love a bit of Miami from time to time? But even ignoring those relative trivialities, there are a bunch of serious issues I'd have to negotiate to make any major relocation a reality: 1. I live in the UK. Sadly I can't just up and move anywhere I choose. Even more frustrating, since we left the EU I can't even just up and move anywhere I choose in Europe (not that restrictions-wise it's much better there at the moment). 2. My close family are all in the UK and, although the rules have made it hard to see them as regularly as I would have liked over the past 2 years, it's been a lot easier (and less costly) than it would have been had I "just moved somewhere else", and I want to continue to be nearish to them. 4. My girlfriend and her close family live in the UK. I'm not leaving her to move somewhere else, and especially not to move to Florida - WTF. Just as importantly I can't see her being keen on living that far from her family. 5. Most of my friends live in the UK, either close to where I live now, or close to where my parents live. I could start again somewhere else but, overall, I'm fairly content with my life. Ditto my girlfriend's friends. 6. My current employer places a 45 day limit on working abroad for tax reasons. This isn't insurmountable. I could find another job but finding another job is another barrier, and I quite like my current job. 7. I have a house that I'm part way through refurbishing. I'd have to figure out what to do with that but, whatever the outcome, that decision will require a significant investment of time, or money, or both. The reality is it would be a trade-off between the two but, in any event, would represent a substantial investment that due to the need to act quickly might well outweigh what I'd invest if I were less constrained by time. 8. I've never wanted to live in the US, though I like visiting, and I'd certainly want better employment conditions than I'm likely to find there: i.e., sensible amounts of holiday, decent employee rights, not to mention public healthcare. Yes, if I was still 28, single, had my whole career ahead of me, and hadn't yet bought a house, I could simply up sticks and leave, as long as practicalities rather than relationships were my major driving factor. But it's not so simple, and the fact that I work in tech is basically irrelevant because the only part of the equation it simplifies is the "getting a job" part, which isn't even the most important aspect of said equation. As an aside, somebody like Joe Rogan can move from California to Texas relatively easily because he's a jetsetter and all his mates are jetsetters so he pretty much only gets the upsides from that move (not a criticism: with the kind of money he has, I might well see things differently too). But far more important than all of that, your comment plays hard to the point I was making: why the hell should I give everything up because, in some part, of a bunch of people who won't see sense? What difference does it make whether that's because of rules and restrictions, or because I've had to walk away from my life and start again because of them?

wonderwonder 5y ago

"are getting enormously fed up of having restrictions placed on our lives which, to a non-trivial extent, are being propagated as a result of people who are spreading misinformation and choosing not to get vaccinated" I am assuming you are a tech worker and can find a remote job. Just move somewhere with no restrictions. There are essentially zero restrictions in states like Florida or Texas. I live in one of those states and aside from maybe 35% of people voluntarily wearing masks there are few signs of the pandemic. I am not denying that people are getting sick I'm just saying that if you dont want to deal with the restrictions then there are options.

bartread 5y ago
Sure, I work in tech, but like plenty of other people who work in tech, it's not as simple as "just move somewhere else." I've only ever driven through Texas, and it's a big state, so I can't comment on what it would be like to live there but I properly detest the climate in Florida, which I'd find impossible to tolerate, and the topography there is extremely uncompelling. Still, I suppose who doesn't love a bit of Miami from time to time? But even ignoring those relative trivialities, there are a bunch of serious issues I'd have to negotiate to make any major relocation a reality: 1. I live in the UK. Sadly I can't just up and move anywhere I choose. Even more frustrating, since we left the EU I can't even just up and move anywhere I choose in Europe (not that restrictions-wise it's much better there at the moment). 2. My close family are all in the UK and, although the rules have made it hard to see them as regularly as I would have liked over the past 2 years, it's been a lot easier (and less costly) than it would have been had I "just moved somewhere else", and I want to continue to be nearish to them. 4. My girlfriend and her close family live in the UK. I'm not leaving her to move somewhere else, and especially not to move to Florida - WTF. Just as importantly I can't see her being keen on living that far from her family. 5. Most of my friends live in the UK, either close to where I live now, or close to where my parents live. I could start again somewhere else but, overall, I'm fairly content with my life. Ditto my girlfriend's friends. 6. My current employer places a 45 day limit on working abroad for tax reasons. This isn't insurmountable. I could find another job but finding another job is another barrier, and I quite like my current job. 7. I have a house that I'm part way through refurbishing. I'd have to figure out what to do with that but, whatever the outcome, that decision will require a significant investment of time, or money, or both. The reality is it would be a trade-off between the two but, in any event, would represent a substantial investment that due to the need to act quickly might well outweigh what I'd invest if I were less constrained by time. 8. I've never wanted to live in the US, though I like visiting, and I'd certainly want better employment conditions than I'm likely to find there: i.e., sensible amounts of holiday, decent employee rights, not to mention public healthcare. Yes, if I was still 28, single, had my whole career ahead of me, and hadn't yet bought a house, I could simply up sticks and leave, as long as practicalities rather than relationships were my major driving factor. But it's not so simple, and the fact that I work in tech is basically irrelevant because the only part of the equation it simplifies is the "getting a job" part, which isn't even the most important aspect of said equation. As an aside, somebody like Joe Rogan can move from California to Texas relatively easily because he's a jetsetter and all his mates are jetsetters so he pretty much only gets the upsides from that move (not a criticism: with the kind of money he has, I might well see things differently too). But far more important than all of that, your comment plays hard to the point I was making: why the hell should I give everything up because, in some part, of a bunch of people who won't see sense? What difference does it make whether that's because of rules and restrictions, or because I've had to walk away from my life and start again because of them?