9 ms·

Great to see Brian Acton (founder of WhatsApp) taking over as interim CEO and the logical choice.

by okneil 5y ago

capableweb 5y ago
Hopefully remains as interim. I'm still suspicious based on previous experience with him selling Whatsapp to Facebook and all that. Actually, very surprising move, are they planning to sell Signal?
- zzzbra 5y ago
  I can't imagine they intend to sell Signal but then when I say "they" it's always been a stand in for Marlinspike. We can only hope he's correct in terms of the team he's built continuing the mission that had formerly been guided by his judgment.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  Obviously you can't be sure he's sincere, but he's on record as saying he regrets that sale.
  - anonporridge 5y ago
    * step 1: Make bucket of money selling your private comm app to FB. * step 2: Publicly declare your regret for that decision. * step 3: Take leadership of big competitor to previous app. * step 4: Goto step 1 for double profit and to continue tearing down functioning attempts at large scale private communications platforms.
    - _heimdall 5y ago
      There's a step between 1 and 2 that you missed - choose to quit from FB and leave $800,000,000 in stock on the table
      - anonporridge 5y ago
        That's an important part of getting step 3 to happen. You need proof of regret, and $800 million seems to have been enough. Cheap money if you can make step 4 happen such that it nets more than 0.8 billion.
        UncleMeat 5y ago
        Signal is a nonprofit. Going to be hard to net $800m on that.
        lupire 5y ago
        Really? You would give up $800M for a bizarre outside chance of.. getting a second chance at $800M?
    - gonehome 5y ago
      The only reason Whatsapp was bidded up to an insane 19 Billion sale value was because Acton did not want to sell. Note that it's not insane in terms of value (in hindsight this was clearly a good buy for FB), but insane when considering that value for your small 30 person company. That's a crazy sale price, I'd like to see you turn it down. It can be true that he didn't want to sell and regrets it and just couldn't reject that offer, the opportunity costs available to you at the level are nuts. This is a risk with centralized services, it's why we need systems that don't require benevolence: https://zalberico.com/essay/2020/07/14/the-serfs-of-facebook.html https://zalberico.com/essay/2020/07/14/the-serfs-of-facebook... Most people don't have principles valued at 19B. I think Urbit is a potential way to get there, but a lot of the web3 ownership model points in this direction.
      - btdmaster 5y ago
        Try Matrix: https://joinmatrix.org https://joinmatrix.org.
        gonehome 5y ago
        Matrix doesn't solve these issues, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29882848 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29882848 That said, I think Matrix is cool and appreciate what they're trying to do. I just think without solving the upstream problems you won't be able to succeed beyond a niche audience.
      - ayngg 5y ago
        Also turning down money for yourself is one thing, but turning it down for your employees and everyone else involved is different.
        gonehome 5y ago
        Agreed - at that level you're talking nearly 100M for each employee? Maybe more? Even if I'm off by a magnitude (and I think I'm not) - that's life changing money for everyone that helped him build Whatsapp.
      - 5y ago
    - UncleMeat 5y ago
      For all its flaws in Facebook integration, WhatApp is the single most impactful system ever in getting people to use secure communication. 1B+ people started using end-to-end encrypted communications overnight when WhatsApp enabled e2ee. This move pushed the entire industry towards adoption of e2ee. Yes, they sold to Facebook. Yes, Facebook is doing everything it can to get the contents of WhatsApp communications so they can monetize. But it is impossible to not see the change they made on the landscape of communication privacy.
      - stereoradonc 5y ago
        e2e is a mirage if its blessed by the three letter agencies.
      - lupire 5y ago
        > Yes, Facebook is doing everything it can to get the contents of WhatsApp communications so they can monetize. Like what?
      - nicoburns 5y ago
        From my perspective, it's also remarkable that WhatsApp managed to enable e2e while already being owned by facebook. It probably won't last, but to me that demonstrates a commitment to security and privacy on the part of the WhatsApp team.
    - lupire 5y ago
      Acton didn't "take leadership" of Signal, he funded its development.
- lelandbatey 5y ago
  Given that Brian Acton apparently "left over a dispute with Facebook regarding monetization of WhatsApp, and voluntarily left $850 million in unvested options on the table by leaving a few months before vesting was completed"[0] and that he went on to found the Signal Foundation one year later with Moxie Marlinspike in 2018, I feel it's not a super clear signal that Acton or Marlinspike are trying to "sell" Signal. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Acton#WhatsApp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Acton#WhatsApp
  - lovecg 5y ago
    Just for context, that’s after vesting a few billions already.
    - Hasu 5y ago
      Okay, but still. It seems like a stretch that the guy is secretly evil but voluntarily gave up almost $1 billion to deceptively prove he's not actually a bad guy. You can claim to be a good guy and wait a few months to cash out - leaving money on the table IS a real signal, even if he's already rich.
      - avarun 5y ago
        You're the only one that has used the word "evil" here.
      - anonporridge 5y ago
        Depends on if he actually left money on the table or if he speculated that there would be more money coming to him if he publicly left FB when he did. Social/public good will is a kind of money itself that can't easily be measured in dollars. That's a big part of the reason extremely wealthy people engage in philanthropy. Good will is a currency that opens some doors that no amount of raw dollars can open.
- s17n 5y ago
  They incorporated Signal as a nonprofit, so it is illegal for anybody to personally profit from the sale of Signal. Of course, that hasn't always stopped people from trying (eg, the recent debacle with the .org tld).
  - ehPReth 5y ago
    What happened there?
    - aspenmayer 5y ago
      https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/04/victory-icann-rejects-org-sale-private-equity-firm-ethos-capital https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/04/victory-icann-rejects-...
izacus 5y ago
Hopefully that means he'll prioritize things that are making Signal a hard sell to WhatsApp and Telegram users. Making Signal a messenger on equal footing would go a long way to increase adoption.
marricks 5y ago
He did leave Facebook because of privacy issues right? That should be a good sign…
- lovecg 5y ago
  I wouldn’t be so sure. He also benefitted greatly from selling it to Facebook in the first place, and stayed on for a few years.
  - dymk 5y ago
    Everybody that joins Facebook thinks they can "fix" it, and many stick around trying to do so. Eventually they leave.
    - saxonww 5y ago
      The WhatsApp sale also happened back in 2014. I don't think FB was especially well liked at that time, but they didn't have as bad a reputation as they do now. 7-8 years is a long time.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        I remember WhatsApp touting the fact that they charge a $1/year subscription to be evidence that they will not sell out data about your use of the app and your contacts, presumably as a contrast to the chat apps offered by Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and others wanting to sling ads. Obviously, the offer from FB was worth selling out for.

Great to see Brian Acton (founder of WhatsApp) taking over as interim CEO and the logical choice.

by okneil 5y ago

Great to see Brian Acton (founder of WhatsApp) taking over as interim CEO and the logical choice.

Hopefully remains as interim. I'm still suspicious based on previous experience with him selling Whatsapp to Facebook and all that. Actually, very surprising move, are they planning to sell Signal?

zzzbra 5y ago
I can't imagine they intend to sell Signal but then when I say "they" it's always been a stand in for Marlinspike. We can only hope he's correct in terms of the team he's built continuing the mission that had formerly been guided by his judgment.
nicoburns 5y ago
Obviously you can't be sure he's sincere, but he's on record as saying he regrets that sale.
- anonporridge 5y ago
  * step 1: Make bucket of money selling your private comm app to FB. * step 2: Publicly declare your regret for that decision. * step 3: Take leadership of big competitor to previous app. * step 4: Goto step 1 for double profit and to continue tearing down functioning attempts at large scale private communications platforms.
  - _heimdall 5y ago
    There's a step between 1 and 2 that you missed - choose to quit from FB and leave $800,000,000 in stock on the table
    - anonporridge 5y ago
      That's an important part of getting step 3 to happen. You need proof of regret, and $800 million seems to have been enough. Cheap money if you can make step 4 happen such that it nets more than 0.8 billion.
      - UncleMeat 5y ago
        Signal is a nonprofit. Going to be hard to net $800m on that.
      - lupire 5y ago
        Really? You would give up $800M for a bizarre outside chance of.. getting a second chance at $800M?
  - gonehome 5y ago
    The only reason Whatsapp was bidded up to an insane 19 Billion sale value was because Acton did not want to sell. Note that it's not insane in terms of value (in hindsight this was clearly a good buy for FB), but insane when considering that value for your small 30 person company. That's a crazy sale price, I'd like to see you turn it down. It can be true that he didn't want to sell and regrets it and just couldn't reject that offer, the opportunity costs available to you at the level are nuts. This is a risk with centralized services, it's why we need systems that don't require benevolence: https://zalberico.com/essay/2020/07/14/the-serfs-of-facebook.html https://zalberico.com/essay/2020/07/14/the-serfs-of-facebook... Most people don't have principles valued at 19B. I think Urbit is a potential way to get there, but a lot of the web3 ownership model points in this direction.
    - btdmaster 5y ago
      Try Matrix: https://joinmatrix.org https://joinmatrix.org.
      - gonehome 5y ago
        Matrix doesn't solve these issues, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29882848 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29882848 That said, I think Matrix is cool and appreciate what they're trying to do. I just think without solving the upstream problems you won't be able to succeed beyond a niche audience.
    - ayngg 5y ago
      Also turning down money for yourself is one thing, but turning it down for your employees and everyone else involved is different.
      - gonehome 5y ago
        Agreed - at that level you're talking nearly 100M for each employee? Maybe more? Even if I'm off by a magnitude (and I think I'm not) - that's life changing money for everyone that helped him build Whatsapp.
    - 5y ago
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    For all its flaws in Facebook integration, WhatApp is the single most impactful system ever in getting people to use secure communication. 1B+ people started using end-to-end encrypted communications overnight when WhatsApp enabled e2ee. This move pushed the entire industry towards adoption of e2ee. Yes, they sold to Facebook. Yes, Facebook is doing everything it can to get the contents of WhatsApp communications so they can monetize. But it is impossible to not see the change they made on the landscape of communication privacy.
    - stereoradonc 5y ago
      e2e is a mirage if its blessed by the three letter agencies.
    - lupire 5y ago
      > Yes, Facebook is doing everything it can to get the contents of WhatsApp communications so they can monetize. Like what?
    - nicoburns 5y ago
      From my perspective, it's also remarkable that WhatsApp managed to enable e2e while already being owned by facebook. It probably won't last, but to me that demonstrates a commitment to security and privacy on the part of the WhatsApp team.
  - lupire 5y ago
    Acton didn't "take leadership" of Signal, he funded its development.
lelandbatey 5y ago
Given that Brian Acton apparently "left over a dispute with Facebook regarding monetization of WhatsApp, and voluntarily left $850 million in unvested options on the table by leaving a few months before vesting was completed"[0] and that he went on to found the Signal Foundation one year later with Moxie Marlinspike in 2018, I feel it's not a super clear signal that Acton or Marlinspike are trying to "sell" Signal. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Acton#WhatsApp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Acton#WhatsApp
- lovecg 5y ago
  Just for context, that’s after vesting a few billions already.
  - Hasu 5y ago
    Okay, but still. It seems like a stretch that the guy is secretly evil but voluntarily gave up almost $1 billion to deceptively prove he's not actually a bad guy. You can claim to be a good guy and wait a few months to cash out - leaving money on the table IS a real signal, even if he's already rich.
    - avarun 5y ago
      You're the only one that has used the word "evil" here.
    - anonporridge 5y ago
      Depends on if he actually left money on the table or if he speculated that there would be more money coming to him if he publicly left FB when he did. Social/public good will is a kind of money itself that can't easily be measured in dollars. That's a big part of the reason extremely wealthy people engage in philanthropy. Good will is a currency that opens some doors that no amount of raw dollars can open.
s17n 5y ago
They incorporated Signal as a nonprofit, so it is illegal for anybody to personally profit from the sale of Signal. Of course, that hasn't always stopped people from trying (eg, the recent debacle with the .org tld).
- ehPReth 5y ago
  What happened there?
  - aspenmayer 5y ago
    https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/04/victory-icann-rejects-org-sale-private-equity-firm-ethos-capital https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/04/victory-icann-rejects-...

izacus 5y ago

Hopefully that means he'll prioritize things that are making Signal a hard sell to WhatsApp and Telegram users. Making Signal a messenger on equal footing would go a long way to increase adoption.

marricks 5y ago

He did leave Facebook because of privacy issues right? That should be a good sign…

lovecg 5y ago
I wouldn’t be so sure. He also benefitted greatly from selling it to Facebook in the first place, and stayed on for a few years.
- dymk 5y ago
  Everybody that joins Facebook thinks they can "fix" it, and many stick around trying to do so. Eventually they leave.
  - saxonww 5y ago
    The WhatsApp sale also happened back in 2014. I don't think FB was especially well liked at that time, but they didn't have as bad a reputation as they do now. 7-8 years is a long time.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      I remember WhatsApp touting the fact that they charge a $1/year subscription to be evidence that they will not sell out data about your use of the app and your contacts, presumably as a contrast to the chat apps offered by Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and others wanting to sling ads. Obviously, the offer from FB was worth selling out for.