4 ms·

> there is no longer a real need to vilify the unvaxxed I very, very much disagree with this. Unvaccinated people have a much higher rate of severe illness th

by ketzo 5y ago

> there is no longer a real need to vilify the unvaxxed I very, very much disagree with this. Unvaccinated people have a much higher rate of severe illness that requires hospitalization. Filling up hospitals unnecessarily kills people, and delays preventative care. People who are voluntarily unvaxxed without a medical necessity are, to be clear, 1) categorically stupid 2) responsible for the injury and death of others.

cm2187 5y ago
> Unvaccinated people have a much higher rate of severe illness that requires hospitalization. Filling up hospitals unnecessarily kills people, and delays preventative care. Not if they already had covid or are young and healthly. I would agree with your statement with the qualifier "unvaccinated people that are over 60 or have comorbidity".
- ketzo 5y ago
  You are, unfortunately, incorrect, at least about the "young and healthy" part. Unvaccinated people of all ages are significantly more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 than vaccinated people of the same age group [1]. 12-34 year olds are 10 times more likely to be hospitalized. Even if the absolute numbers are very low for young and healthy people – even if that's 0.01% instead of 0.001% of cases – that is an absolutely unacceptable amount of people to be putting into hospital beds when they could just get a motherfucking shot instead. [1] Page 3 of https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/data-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/... Study published 3 days ago.
  - cm2187 5y ago
    The risk of covid to healthy 12-34 is minuscule, less than the flu apparently. You can divide this risk by 10 but that will do nothing materially to the risk to this population nor to ICU usage.
    - ketzo 5y ago
      > that will do nothing materially Tell me it's not material when you're waiting in a rural ER for six hours because one of their two ventilators is taken by an unvaccinated 19-year-old who went to three New Year's Eve parties. There would be a conversation to have here if getting the vaccine wasn't the easiest goddamn thing in the world. But it is. So there's not.
      - cm2187 5y ago
        We are talking about winning the lottery kind of tiny risks. Your 19yo could also be vaccinated. That’s also a plausible scenario. But both those scenarios are extremely unlikely.
  - ifyoubuildit 5y ago
    I'd love to see a study like that breaking down the risks between seronaive and recovered people. They all seem to just talk about the unvaccinated as one monolithic group, but the difference between those with a prior infection and without is known to be huge. I've yet to see any convincing evidence that a prior infection isn't good enough, but I see plenty of people convinced that the recovered are selfish/evil/stupid if they aren't rushing out for a vaccine.
xkbarkar 5y ago
I could use the same rationale to say people who are fat are willingly putting others in danger. As up to 75% of C19 hospitaltizations are obese persons I could just a s easily hunt down overweights and accuse them of murder as their unhealthy habits are now clogging the medical system forcing us to shut down society to protect them. I could call them names ,like typhoid Maries. Fat fucks. Ban them from participating in society unless they show a proper BMI index card. Force them into diet camps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BdPKpWbxTg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BdPKpWbxTg. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31024-2/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6.... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32929833/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32929833/. But I would never do that. I happily spend my tax money for peole who smoke, overeat, drink and drive, get bothched breas augmentations, beat the crap of eachother, OD on heroin and all the amazing horrible things that make us humans. Whatever choice you make in your life, you can NEVER EVER be threatened to have medical care taken away from you. Unconditinal medical care is one of the corner stones of our society. Red Cross workers in conflict areas will treat rape victims in one tent, and their rapist in the next. Fun job, no. But if you cannot handle it than you should not have gone into medicine. This tendency to normalice demands of who gets medical care and who doesnt stops now. There are not many things I will violently defend, but if society will ever hint that it is going to elect who gets medical support and who doesnt based on their personal life choices I will protest. Violenty if I have to. This is a basic human right I am willing to die for.
- ketzo 5y ago
  Where am I saying to stop providing medical care? No one should go untreated, not even the dumbest, shit-spewing-est anti-vaxxer. Human life is precious. But the idea that vaccination status is remotely comparable to weight, smoking, drug addiction – that's laughable. It's a single goddamn shot (sorry – two shots for mRNA). You can get them fucking everywhere, for free, with a walk-in appointment. We know they're safe. We know they keep people out of the hospital. We know that putting people in hospitals right now is a huge drain on a strained resource. Again: people who are sick deserve care. Always. Regardless of their moronic views. But the idea that an unvaccinated person is somehow free of the responsibility of their actions, when they could so easily fix them? I find that hard to swallow.
Karsteski 5y ago
I very, very much disagree with this. Obese people have a much higher rate of severe illness that requires hospitalization. Filling up hospitals unnecessarily kills people, and delays preventative care. People who are voluntarily obese without a medical necessity are, to be clear, 1) categorically stupid 2) responsible for the injury and death of others. ------------------------------------------- See how off-putting this gets very quickly?
- ketzo 5y ago
  Ah, yes. Obesity, that problem that can be solved with a free, walk-in appointment at any drugstore in the country. These two things are a perfect, 1:1 analogy.
  - danenania 5y ago
    How about riding a motorcycle? It's not addictive or difficult to avoid. All you have to do is... not do it. So do motorcycle riders share similar responsibility because they're choosing to do something that also puts them at significantly higher risk of ending up in the hospital? I'm also in favor of vaccination btw, but against the shaming.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by ketzo 5y ago

cm2187 5y ago

> Unvaccinated people have a much higher rate of severe illness that requires hospitalization. Filling up hospitals unnecessarily kills people, and delays preventative care. Not if they already had covid or are young and healthly. I would agree with your statement with the qualifier "unvaccinated people that are over 60 or have comorbidity".

ketzo 5y ago
You are, unfortunately, incorrect, at least about the "young and healthy" part. Unvaccinated people of all ages are significantly more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 than vaccinated people of the same age group [1]. 12-34 year olds are 10 times more likely to be hospitalized. Even if the absolute numbers are very low for young and healthy people – even if that's 0.01% instead of 0.001% of cases – that is an absolutely unacceptable amount of people to be putting into hospital beds when they could just get a motherfucking shot instead. [1] Page 3 of https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/data-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/... Study published 3 days ago.
- cm2187 5y ago
  The risk of covid to healthy 12-34 is minuscule, less than the flu apparently. You can divide this risk by 10 but that will do nothing materially to the risk to this population nor to ICU usage.
  - ketzo 5y ago
    > that will do nothing materially Tell me it's not material when you're waiting in a rural ER for six hours because one of their two ventilators is taken by an unvaccinated 19-year-old who went to three New Year's Eve parties. There would be a conversation to have here if getting the vaccine wasn't the easiest goddamn thing in the world. But it is. So there's not.
    - cm2187 5y ago
      We are talking about winning the lottery kind of tiny risks. Your 19yo could also be vaccinated. That’s also a plausible scenario. But both those scenarios are extremely unlikely.
- ifyoubuildit 5y ago
  I'd love to see a study like that breaking down the risks between seronaive and recovered people. They all seem to just talk about the unvaccinated as one monolithic group, but the difference between those with a prior infection and without is known to be huge. I've yet to see any convincing evidence that a prior infection isn't good enough, but I see plenty of people convinced that the recovered are selfish/evil/stupid if they aren't rushing out for a vaccine.

xkbarkar 5y ago

I could use the same rationale to say people who are fat are willingly putting others in danger. As up to 75% of C19 hospitaltizations are obese persons I could just a s easily hunt down overweights and accuse them of murder as their unhealthy habits are now clogging the medical system forcing us to shut down society to protect them. I could call them names ,like typhoid Maries. Fat fucks. Ban them from participating in society unless they show a proper BMI index card. Force them into diet camps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BdPKpWbxTg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BdPKpWbxTg. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31024-2/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6.... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32929833/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32929833/. But I would never do that. I happily spend my tax money for peole who smoke, overeat, drink and drive, get bothched breas augmentations, beat the crap of eachother, OD on heroin and all the amazing horrible things that make us humans. Whatever choice you make in your life, you can NEVER EVER be threatened to have medical care taken away from you. Unconditinal medical care is one of the corner stones of our society. Red Cross workers in conflict areas will treat rape victims in one tent, and their rapist in the next. Fun job, no. But if you cannot handle it than you should not have gone into medicine. This tendency to normalice demands of who gets medical care and who doesnt stops now. There are not many things I will violently defend, but if society will ever hint that it is going to elect who gets medical support and who doesnt based on their personal life choices I will protest. Violenty if I have to. This is a basic human right I am willing to die for.

ketzo 5y ago
Where am I saying to stop providing medical care? No one should go untreated, not even the dumbest, shit-spewing-est anti-vaxxer. Human life is precious. But the idea that vaccination status is remotely comparable to weight, smoking, drug addiction – that's laughable. It's a single goddamn shot (sorry – two shots for mRNA). You can get them fucking everywhere, for free, with a walk-in appointment. We know they're safe. We know they keep people out of the hospital. We know that putting people in hospitals right now is a huge drain on a strained resource. Again: people who are sick deserve care. Always. Regardless of their moronic views. But the idea that an unvaccinated person is somehow free of the responsibility of their actions, when they could so easily fix them? I find that hard to swallow.

Karsteski 5y ago

I very, very much disagree with this. Obese people have a much higher rate of severe illness that requires hospitalization. Filling up hospitals unnecessarily kills people, and delays preventative care. People who are voluntarily obese without a medical necessity are, to be clear, 1) categorically stupid 2) responsible for the injury and death of others. ------------------------------------------- See how off-putting this gets very quickly?

ketzo 5y ago
Ah, yes. Obesity, that problem that can be solved with a free, walk-in appointment at any drugstore in the country. These two things are a perfect, 1:1 analogy.
- danenania 5y ago
  How about riding a motorcycle? It's not addictive or difficult to avoid. All you have to do is... not do it. So do motorcycle riders share similar responsibility because they're choosing to do something that also puts them at significantly higher risk of ending up in the hospital? I'm also in favor of vaccination btw, but against the shaming.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]