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> everyone else who still would much prefer not to get sick and risk long covid but I will keep the mask on for now, thanks But what's the plan? Covid is showi

> everyone else who still would much prefer not to get sick and risk long covid but I will keep the mask on for now, thanks But what's the plan? Covid is showing no signs of going away. If things stay the same, is your stance going to change in a year? 3? 5?

lambdaba 5y ago
Not accusing the parent of this, but there is a significant portion of the population that would be quite content that this doesn't go away ever.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  I seriously question that. Are there some? Sure. A significant portion? Barring evidence, no.
  - lambdaba 5y ago
    There's a lot of people that like masks, staying home, a lot of people that like that others are being forced to do things ("political enemies"), etc. I think it's more than most suppose, and they are vocal, too.
    - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
      My read is that yes, they are vocal, but precisely because they are vocal it is easy to overestimate how numerous they are.
      - spookthesunset 5y ago
        Yes. Worse the policy makers continue to listen to them instead of everybody who has moved on. We are held hostage by societies most fearful.
    - zzzeek 5y ago
      ive liked to stay home for decades and because of that i tend not to travel much. covid has nothing to do with that? why would i wish a certain lifestyle on other people? also "political enemies" who disagree with covid restrictions arent forced to do anything, they are walking around unvaccinated, unmasked, filling up the hospitals and crushing the healthcare system with abandon. Nobody is coming after them.
    - namarie 5y ago
      The jump from "some people aren't as bothered by masks and are more ok with staying home" to "these same people wouldn't mind if a disease that already killed millions just lingers forever" is... baffling.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    Tons of people love this stuff. I see it all around where I live. It’s like a fashion statement to them.
    - yupper32 5y ago
      This is basically just an anti-masker talking point that's akin to school-yard taunting. It's not based in reality.
      - spookthesunset 5y ago
        It’s absolutely based on reality. I invite you to live in any major west coast city. Dudes have lost the plot. Besides, there is nothing wrong with being “anti mask”. Covid is endemic. I’m boostered. Why should I continue to be forced to wear a mask? Is Covid still the only problem I can ever focus on?
  - coolso 5y ago
    There is a significant portion of the population that enjoys telling others what to do. Nobody can argue this. Therefore, given the fact that COVID restrictions is the hottest-button issue of the past several years, and dealing with it involves telling people what to do, through force of law no less (usually), it only follows... After COVID, what are the media and these people going to do? The gravy train is going to run out, everything else will be boring for them in comparison.
- zzzeek 5y ago
  name any evidence whatsoever of this. this is a toxic viewpoint that conservatives seem to hold which is that liberals/antifa/others somehow "like" covid, or that governments somehow "want" to shut schools down. I see this viewpoint quite a bit and it is completely insane and not based in any reality at all. for example, I have relatives who watch FOX news all day. they are convinced covid vaccines were created to kill people, for the purposes of "thinning the herd". the reason for this "thinning the herd", which they seem to believe is happening? despite most everyone they know including their whole extended family shaking their heads at their crazy facebook posts being vaccinated without any issue? is so that this would somehow pave the way for "communism". that's their whole worldview. so those are folks who think we're somehow all on board with covid being great, or something.
- jasonladuke0311 5y ago
  Yep, there is a lot of this sentiment among people here and on Reddit - awfully misanthropic
ryandrake 5y ago
People's stances should change as reality and conditions on the ground change, not based on some arbitrary number of months/years pulled out of the sky. What makes 3 years special, or 5 years? We may be at the very beginning of a COVID decade or even century. Do you know for sure how long this will last? Does anyone? Part of why we can't get past this thing is politicians declaring "We must be back to normal in [TIMEFRAME X]" where TIMEFRAME X was arbitrarily chosen and has nothing to do with reality.
- yupper32 5y ago
  I picked arbitrary time frames in my question because at some point people are going to give up, regardless of the conditions on the ground. A massive amount of people have already given up. I wanted to know if they were prepared to go on for 1, 3, 5, 10, 20 more years of mask wearing in public, travel restrictions, remote learning, testing, etc. if things stay the same.
  - ryandrake 5y ago
    I see. Yea, I mean the only answer that really makes sense is "when it's over"--by some arguable definition of over. If they say "Well, I'll deal with it for 3 years but on year 4, that's it--I'm just going to give up, and pretend it's over." then I would: a) question where they got that number 4--what it's based on, and b) ask, if you're willing to ignore reality and just pretend it's over, why not just start pretending now?
    - yupper32 5y ago
      > Yea, I mean the only answer that really makes sense is "when it's over" I wouldn't say that. On the extreme end, if I found out that this thing was not going to be "over" during my lifetime, I'd say it doesn't make sense to continue doing this for my entire life. What kind of life is that? And to be fair, I'm from the perspective of the Bay Area which has some of the strictest restrictions in the US. If you live in a more red area then you're more likely to already pretend it's over. > ask, if you're willing to ignore reality and just pretend it's over, why not just start pretending now? That's what I've been asking myself. I don't know the answer.
burkaman 5y ago
I mean, my stance on seatbelts is never going to change even if car accidents never stop happening. I have no idea how I'll feel about masks and everything else in 3 years, but for the moment it's not crazy to say "I think we should keep taking precautions as long as the problem still exists".
- yupper32 5y ago
  If Covid restrictions were as easy and inconsequential as seatbelts, I wouldn't have an issue doing it indefinitely. But they're not even close.
  - nathanaldensr 5y ago
    The false equivalencies in this thread are astounding.
  - namarie 5y ago
    Masks in particular are pretty easy and inconsequential.
    - yupper32 5y ago
      In what way? I have to cover my face every time I talk to someone. That's in no way inconsequential. It's depressing and antisocial. I have to wear a mask while at the gym. That's in no way easy, particularly for cardio. I'm lucky that I can work from home, otherwise I'd be wearing a mask for nearly my entire day at work. And of course masking is just a part of the overall Covid restrictions that we still have to deal with. To be clear, I'm in the bay area and fully follow local mask guidance. I can do that while also trying to figure out how long we can do this for, and acknowledging that I can't do this forever.
      - namarie 5y ago
        > I have to cover my face every time I talk to someone. That's in no way inconsequential. It's depressing and antisocial. Is it? Why? > I have to wear a mask while at the gym. That's in no way easy, particularly for cardio. Of course it isn't at first. If society was such that we already used masks all the time I suspect people would just get used to it. > I'm lucky that I can work from home, otherwise I'd be wearing a mask for nearly my entire day at work. And...? We also wear clothes all day long at work. I suppose some people would call it bothersome or depressing or antisocial, but mostly we're all so used to it we don't even think about it. I'm not opining on whether or not society can keep intermittently locking down forever, but we can certainly keep masking forever.
zzzeek 5y ago
it's not possible for things to "stay the same" because long covid will have been studied for years and there will be tons of data on it regarding what effect vaccines have upon it, what different variants do as far as long covid, etc. hopefully it will be well established that long covid is preventable by vaccines and/or new treatments have been developed and/or more evidence that "long covid" is not actually permanent will have been reached. right now almost nothing is known about long covid except for the very terrifying pathways by which the virus causes it takes effect, directly attacking organs, cardiovascular, lungs, immune system, and brain with long term, extensive damage in some cases. no thanks so the plan is "wait and see" until more is known. if indeed it's established that long covid is much too dangerous to be risked (in the same way that lyme disease is currently considered to be too dangerous to be risked) then hopefully they will work towards producing newer vaccines that keep the initial antibody wall up against variants, and oral antiviral drugs that stop the virus much more quickly will also be commonplace. as well as that the global population will slowly (very...slowly) be getting more and more immunity from vaccines and re-infection, hopefully reducing the rate at which new variants emerge. so in 3-5 years there will be lots of things improving the situation. we are not there yet.
- yupper32 5y ago
  > so in 3-5 years there will be lots of things improving the situation. we are not there yet. Uh yeah sorry, I'm already losing it less than 2 years into this thing. There's zero chance I'm making it another 3-5 years. It's just not possible mentally for me. I don't know exactly what my time frame is, but 3-5 years is certainly beyond my limit.
  - zzzeek 5y ago
    you know thats a great and honest response. things are way more "normal" than they were 18 months ago and they will continue to improve.

lambdaba 5y ago

Not accusing the parent of this, but there is a significant portion of the population that would be quite content that this doesn't go away ever.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
I seriously question that. Are there some? Sure. A significant portion? Barring evidence, no.
- lambdaba 5y ago
  There's a lot of people that like masks, staying home, a lot of people that like that others are being forced to do things ("political enemies"), etc. I think it's more than most suppose, and they are vocal, too.
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    My read is that yes, they are vocal, but precisely because they are vocal it is easy to overestimate how numerous they are.
    - spookthesunset 5y ago
      Yes. Worse the policy makers continue to listen to them instead of everybody who has moved on. We are held hostage by societies most fearful.
  - zzzeek 5y ago
    ive liked to stay home for decades and because of that i tend not to travel much. covid has nothing to do with that? why would i wish a certain lifestyle on other people? also "political enemies" who disagree with covid restrictions arent forced to do anything, they are walking around unvaccinated, unmasked, filling up the hospitals and crushing the healthcare system with abandon. Nobody is coming after them.
  - namarie 5y ago
    The jump from "some people aren't as bothered by masks and are more ok with staying home" to "these same people wouldn't mind if a disease that already killed millions just lingers forever" is... baffling.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  Tons of people love this stuff. I see it all around where I live. It’s like a fashion statement to them.
  - yupper32 5y ago
    This is basically just an anti-masker talking point that's akin to school-yard taunting. It's not based in reality.
    - spookthesunset 5y ago
      It’s absolutely based on reality. I invite you to live in any major west coast city. Dudes have lost the plot. Besides, there is nothing wrong with being “anti mask”. Covid is endemic. I’m boostered. Why should I continue to be forced to wear a mask? Is Covid still the only problem I can ever focus on?
- coolso 5y ago
  There is a significant portion of the population that enjoys telling others what to do. Nobody can argue this. Therefore, given the fact that COVID restrictions is the hottest-button issue of the past several years, and dealing with it involves telling people what to do, through force of law no less (usually), it only follows... After COVID, what are the media and these people going to do? The gravy train is going to run out, everything else will be boring for them in comparison.
zzzeek 5y ago
name any evidence whatsoever of this. this is a toxic viewpoint that conservatives seem to hold which is that liberals/antifa/others somehow "like" covid, or that governments somehow "want" to shut schools down. I see this viewpoint quite a bit and it is completely insane and not based in any reality at all. for example, I have relatives who watch FOX news all day. they are convinced covid vaccines were created to kill people, for the purposes of "thinning the herd". the reason for this "thinning the herd", which they seem to believe is happening? despite most everyone they know including their whole extended family shaking their heads at their crazy facebook posts being vaccinated without any issue? is so that this would somehow pave the way for "communism". that's their whole worldview. so those are folks who think we're somehow all on board with covid being great, or something.
jasonladuke0311 5y ago
Yep, there is a lot of this sentiment among people here and on Reddit - awfully misanthropic

ryandrake 5y ago

People's stances should change as reality and conditions on the ground change, not based on some arbitrary number of months/years pulled out of the sky. What makes 3 years special, or 5 years? We may be at the very beginning of a COVID decade or even century. Do you know for sure how long this will last? Does anyone? Part of why we can't get past this thing is politicians declaring "We must be back to normal in [TIMEFRAME X]" where TIMEFRAME X was arbitrarily chosen and has nothing to do with reality.

yupper32 5y ago
I picked arbitrary time frames in my question because at some point people are going to give up, regardless of the conditions on the ground. A massive amount of people have already given up. I wanted to know if they were prepared to go on for 1, 3, 5, 10, 20 more years of mask wearing in public, travel restrictions, remote learning, testing, etc. if things stay the same.
- ryandrake 5y ago
  I see. Yea, I mean the only answer that really makes sense is "when it's over"--by some arguable definition of over. If they say "Well, I'll deal with it for 3 years but on year 4, that's it--I'm just going to give up, and pretend it's over." then I would: a) question where they got that number 4--what it's based on, and b) ask, if you're willing to ignore reality and just pretend it's over, why not just start pretending now?
  - yupper32 5y ago
    > Yea, I mean the only answer that really makes sense is "when it's over" I wouldn't say that. On the extreme end, if I found out that this thing was not going to be "over" during my lifetime, I'd say it doesn't make sense to continue doing this for my entire life. What kind of life is that? And to be fair, I'm from the perspective of the Bay Area which has some of the strictest restrictions in the US. If you live in a more red area then you're more likely to already pretend it's over. > ask, if you're willing to ignore reality and just pretend it's over, why not just start pretending now? That's what I've been asking myself. I don't know the answer.

burkaman 5y ago

I mean, my stance on seatbelts is never going to change even if car accidents never stop happening. I have no idea how I'll feel about masks and everything else in 3 years, but for the moment it's not crazy to say "I think we should keep taking precautions as long as the problem still exists".

yupper32 5y ago
If Covid restrictions were as easy and inconsequential as seatbelts, I wouldn't have an issue doing it indefinitely. But they're not even close.
- nathanaldensr 5y ago
  The false equivalencies in this thread are astounding.
- namarie 5y ago
  Masks in particular are pretty easy and inconsequential.
  - yupper32 5y ago
    In what way? I have to cover my face every time I talk to someone. That's in no way inconsequential. It's depressing and antisocial. I have to wear a mask while at the gym. That's in no way easy, particularly for cardio. I'm lucky that I can work from home, otherwise I'd be wearing a mask for nearly my entire day at work. And of course masking is just a part of the overall Covid restrictions that we still have to deal with. To be clear, I'm in the bay area and fully follow local mask guidance. I can do that while also trying to figure out how long we can do this for, and acknowledging that I can't do this forever.
    - namarie 5y ago
      > I have to cover my face every time I talk to someone. That's in no way inconsequential. It's depressing and antisocial. Is it? Why? > I have to wear a mask while at the gym. That's in no way easy, particularly for cardio. Of course it isn't at first. If society was such that we already used masks all the time I suspect people would just get used to it. > I'm lucky that I can work from home, otherwise I'd be wearing a mask for nearly my entire day at work. And...? We also wear clothes all day long at work. I suppose some people would call it bothersome or depressing or antisocial, but mostly we're all so used to it we don't even think about it. I'm not opining on whether or not society can keep intermittently locking down forever, but we can certainly keep masking forever.

zzzeek 5y ago

it's not possible for things to "stay the same" because long covid will have been studied for years and there will be tons of data on it regarding what effect vaccines have upon it, what different variants do as far as long covid, etc. hopefully it will be well established that long covid is preventable by vaccines and/or new treatments have been developed and/or more evidence that "long covid" is not actually permanent will have been reached. right now almost nothing is known about long covid except for the very terrifying pathways by which the virus causes it takes effect, directly attacking organs, cardiovascular, lungs, immune system, and brain with long term, extensive damage in some cases. no thanks so the plan is "wait and see" until more is known. if indeed it's established that long covid is much too dangerous to be risked (in the same way that lyme disease is currently considered to be too dangerous to be risked) then hopefully they will work towards producing newer vaccines that keep the initial antibody wall up against variants, and oral antiviral drugs that stop the virus much more quickly will also be commonplace. as well as that the global population will slowly (very...slowly) be getting more and more immunity from vaccines and re-infection, hopefully reducing the rate at which new variants emerge. so in 3-5 years there will be lots of things improving the situation. we are not there yet.

yupper32 5y ago
> so in 3-5 years there will be lots of things improving the situation. we are not there yet. Uh yeah sorry, I'm already losing it less than 2 years into this thing. There's zero chance I'm making it another 3-5 years. It's just not possible mentally for me. I don't know exactly what my time frame is, but 3-5 years is certainly beyond my limit.
- zzzeek 5y ago
  you know thats a great and honest response. things are way more "normal" than they were 18 months ago and they will continue to improve.