4 ms·

But anybody who I spread it to and is vaxxed also has minimal, acceptable risk. If they aren't vaxed, that's on them.

mattnewton 5y ago
That's not true of the immunocompromised, the rare few who actually couldn't get the fully vaccine because of a reaction to the first dose, the elderly and others with co-morbidities they might not even know about. Those people, along with the unvaccinated, are still going to overwhelm the hospitals if everyone doesn't attempt to limit the spread with measures like masking and testing.
- JSavageOne 5y ago
  Why should everyone in society be forced to bend over backwards to accommodate elderly people or those with comorbidities who decide to go out in public? COVID-19 has an infection fatality rate of something like 0.20%. Let's move on from these draconian restrictions and get back to reality. The flu has been overwhelming hospitals since before COVID [1], governments and hospital systems have had 2+ years to deal with the supply-side of the healthcare equation here, at this point if they still haven't figured it out it's on them. [1] https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/ https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patie...
  - mattnewton 5y ago
    I'm not saying we should lock everything down and stop going outside. I am saying COVID is still infectious and lethal enough to warrant small countermeasures like encouraging masking indoors and regular testing / quarantine if you have it to limit the spread. These are small, proportional measures to the danger I think.
- fallingknife 5y ago
  Flu is also dangerous to these people but we never wore masks. This is an edge case and it is the responsibility of these people to protect themselves.
  - mattnewton 5y ago
    This is significantly more dangerous to significantly more people than the flu so the extra masking / testing is warranted for the time being. That being said, this is probably where we will end up, with a milder and endemic COVID that we treat like the flu.
pklausler 5y ago
If they are eligible for vaccination and choose to refuse it, that's one thing. But there are people who cannot be vaccinated, and I still worry about how my actions might affect them.
LeifCarrotson 5y ago
Anybody except the elderly - a responsibly vaccinated septuagenarian or octogenarian has a very different, much worse risk profile compared to a responsibly vaccinated young adult. This group is about 3 out of every 100 people. And anybody except the immunocompromised - you probably know at least a couple older family members, but may not immediately think of anyone immunocompromised, but again they're around 3% of the population. It includes those suffering from or using immunosuppressive drugs to manage type 1 diabetes, HIV, arthritis, cancer, organ transplants, lupus, IBD, and many other conditions. Even before the vaccine, I - a 30 year old in good health - had what I personally consider to be an acceptable risk profile to contracting the vaccine. For me, it's never seemed an issue of personal safety, I've always been deferring plans, wearing a mask, isolating, been vaccinated, and been boosted to protect others. There are a few faces of elderly and immunocompromised people in my life that I can recall to help my emotional processing. But it's becoming harder to run the emotionally-loaded math and feel morally culpable for the harm caused by my potentially transmitting it to the three of my coworkers who are vocally, rabidly antivax (all 60+, two with comorbidities) and then worry about their transmitting it to their unknown peers I'm sure they associate with who may be vaccinated but might be harmed.

That's not true of the immunocompromised, the rare few who actually couldn't get the fully vaccine because of a reaction to the first dose, the elderly and others with co-morbidities they might not even know about. Those people, along with the unvaccinated, are still going to overwhelm the hospitals if everyone doesn't attempt to limit the spread with measures like masking and testing.

JSavageOne 5y ago
Why should everyone in society be forced to bend over backwards to accommodate elderly people or those with comorbidities who decide to go out in public? COVID-19 has an infection fatality rate of something like 0.20%. Let's move on from these draconian restrictions and get back to reality. The flu has been overwhelming hospitals since before COVID [1], governments and hospital systems have had 2+ years to deal with the supply-side of the healthcare equation here, at this point if they still haven't figured it out it's on them. [1] https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/ https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patie...
- mattnewton 5y ago
  I'm not saying we should lock everything down and stop going outside. I am saying COVID is still infectious and lethal enough to warrant small countermeasures like encouraging masking indoors and regular testing / quarantine if you have it to limit the spread. These are small, proportional measures to the danger I think.
fallingknife 5y ago
Flu is also dangerous to these people but we never wore masks. This is an edge case and it is the responsibility of these people to protect themselves.
- mattnewton 5y ago
  This is significantly more dangerous to significantly more people than the flu so the extra masking / testing is warranted for the time being. That being said, this is probably where we will end up, with a milder and endemic COVID that we treat like the flu.

pklausler 5y ago

If they are eligible for vaccination and choose to refuse it, that's one thing. But there are people who cannot be vaccinated, and I still worry about how my actions might affect them.

LeifCarrotson 5y ago

Anybody except the elderly - a responsibly vaccinated septuagenarian or octogenarian has a very different, much worse risk profile compared to a responsibly vaccinated young adult. This group is about 3 out of every 100 people. And anybody except the immunocompromised - you probably know at least a couple older family members, but may not immediately think of anyone immunocompromised, but again they're around 3% of the population. It includes those suffering from or using immunosuppressive drugs to manage type 1 diabetes, HIV, arthritis, cancer, organ transplants, lupus, IBD, and many other conditions. Even before the vaccine, I - a 30 year old in good health - had what I personally consider to be an acceptable risk profile to contracting the vaccine. For me, it's never seemed an issue of personal safety, I've always been deferring plans, wearing a mask, isolating, been vaccinated, and been boosted to protect others. There are a few faces of elderly and immunocompromised people in my life that I can recall to help my emotional processing. But it's becoming harder to run the emotionally-loaded math and feel morally culpable for the harm caused by my potentially transmitting it to the three of my coworkers who are vocally, rabidly antivax (all 60+, two with comorbidities) and then worry about their transmitting it to their unknown peers I'm sure they associate with who may be vaccinated but might be harmed.