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I think the message of "vaxxed and done" is the right way for us to be moving, but I think it's incomplete. To get vaxxed insulates you from the risk of severe

I think the message of "vaxxed and done" is the right way for us to be moving, but I think it's incomplete. To get vaxxed insulates you from the risk of severe disease. It reduces the risk to the point that going out and living life is an acceptable risk, just like any other. However, it doesn't protect you from infecting others. To that end, I think that indoor mask mandates continue to be justifiable and should continue until we either evolve a COVID-19 variant weak enough that moderate disease isn't disruptive, or it fades away. In order for us to continue to have freedom, it requires collective sacrifice. We have seen a large swath of the US population unwilling to make relatively simple sacrifices to ensure that we have freedom of mobility. This is disappointing to see.

mattnewton 5y ago
I would agree with this but add continuous testing to the mix, and actually quarantining if you have a positive test but no symptoms. It seems like the most reasonable comprimise between the individual desire to return to normal. Unfortunately this is a large individual responsibility, both in behavior and in the costs of getting enough tests. PCR tests are mostly impractical for continuous testing while going out and about becuase of the large time lag between testing and results, made worse by spiking demand and limited lab capacity, and buying rapid tests can add up as a real cost to the average family.
- Spartan-S63 5y ago
  I agree with the continuous testing requirement, too. I’m lucky enough to live in Colorado with an at-home test kit program. I’ve been able to regularly test about once a week, or more frequently if I have clinical symptoms. We need a program like that on a national scale. I know countries like the UK are doing really well with at-home testing programs, but here in the US, we’re still experiencing both PCR and rapid test shortages. We shouldn’t be seeing this so far into a pandemic. Fully agree on the individual responsibility to quarantine regardless of clinical symptoms, too. There’s been a huge failing, this entire pandemic, at the individual level. It’s why the lockdowns were marginally effective — folks didn’t stay at home like they were asked to. It’s another symptom of a lack of collective sacrifice for the greater good.
fallingknife 5y ago
But anybody who I spread it to and is vaxxed also has minimal, acceptable risk. If they aren't vaxed, that's on them.
- mattnewton 5y ago
  That's not true of the immunocompromised, the rare few who actually couldn't get the fully vaccine because of a reaction to the first dose, the elderly and others with co-morbidities they might not even know about. Those people, along with the unvaccinated, are still going to overwhelm the hospitals if everyone doesn't attempt to limit the spread with measures like masking and testing.
  - JSavageOne 5y ago
    Why should everyone in society be forced to bend over backwards to accommodate elderly people or those with comorbidities who decide to go out in public? COVID-19 has an infection fatality rate of something like 0.20%. Let's move on from these draconian restrictions and get back to reality. The flu has been overwhelming hospitals since before COVID [1], governments and hospital systems have had 2+ years to deal with the supply-side of the healthcare equation here, at this point if they still haven't figured it out it's on them. [1] https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/ https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patie...
    - mattnewton 5y ago
      I'm not saying we should lock everything down and stop going outside. I am saying COVID is still infectious and lethal enough to warrant small countermeasures like encouraging masking indoors and regular testing / quarantine if you have it to limit the spread. These are small, proportional measures to the danger I think.
  - fallingknife 5y ago
    Flu is also dangerous to these people but we never wore masks. This is an edge case and it is the responsibility of these people to protect themselves.
JSavageOne 5y ago
Personally I'm completely sick of mask mandates. First off the effectiveness of masks is even questionable except for k95 masks, which are hideously uncomfortable and look ridiculous. In any case, I firmly believe that people should have the freedom to decide for themselves whether they want to wear them. I was in Copenhagen a few months ago where no one was wearing masks anywhere including indoors, and it was so refreshing seeing life as usual again, smiles on peoples' faces, etc.
- amatecha 5y ago
  I've been wearing KN95 at every outing for the past year+ and .. uhh.. it's not a problem at all. Why wouldn't I wear a mask like that to protect myself and others? The useless cloth and surgical masks are no more comfortable. Personally I bought a massive box of KN95 and give packages of them to family and friends so they can similarly stay safe.
csee 5y ago
I disagree with this language of "collective" sacrifice. A group can't sacrifice or suffer. Only individuals can sacrifice and suffer. Lockdowns are a sacrifice paid strictly by individuals.
nathanaldensr 5y ago
Call me crazy, but I thoroughly enjoy the unrestricted flow of oxygen into my mouth during inhalation and the unrestricted flow of carbon dioxide out of my mouth during exhalation.

mattnewton 5y ago

I would agree with this but add continuous testing to the mix, and actually quarantining if you have a positive test but no symptoms. It seems like the most reasonable comprimise between the individual desire to return to normal. Unfortunately this is a large individual responsibility, both in behavior and in the costs of getting enough tests. PCR tests are mostly impractical for continuous testing while going out and about becuase of the large time lag between testing and results, made worse by spiking demand and limited lab capacity, and buying rapid tests can add up as a real cost to the average family.

Spartan-S63 5y ago
I agree with the continuous testing requirement, too. I’m lucky enough to live in Colorado with an at-home test kit program. I’ve been able to regularly test about once a week, or more frequently if I have clinical symptoms. We need a program like that on a national scale. I know countries like the UK are doing really well with at-home testing programs, but here in the US, we’re still experiencing both PCR and rapid test shortages. We shouldn’t be seeing this so far into a pandemic. Fully agree on the individual responsibility to quarantine regardless of clinical symptoms, too. There’s been a huge failing, this entire pandemic, at the individual level. It’s why the lockdowns were marginally effective — folks didn’t stay at home like they were asked to. It’s another symptom of a lack of collective sacrifice for the greater good.

fallingknife 5y ago

But anybody who I spread it to and is vaxxed also has minimal, acceptable risk. If they aren't vaxed, that's on them.

mattnewton 5y ago
That's not true of the immunocompromised, the rare few who actually couldn't get the fully vaccine because of a reaction to the first dose, the elderly and others with co-morbidities they might not even know about. Those people, along with the unvaccinated, are still going to overwhelm the hospitals if everyone doesn't attempt to limit the spread with measures like masking and testing.
- JSavageOne 5y ago
  Why should everyone in society be forced to bend over backwards to accommodate elderly people or those with comorbidities who decide to go out in public? COVID-19 has an infection fatality rate of something like 0.20%. Let's move on from these draconian restrictions and get back to reality. The flu has been overwhelming hospitals since before COVID [1], governments and hospital systems have had 2+ years to deal with the supply-side of the healthcare equation here, at this point if they still haven't figured it out it's on them. [1] https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/ https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patie...
  - mattnewton 5y ago
    I'm not saying we should lock everything down and stop going outside. I am saying COVID is still infectious and lethal enough to warrant small countermeasures like encouraging masking indoors and regular testing / quarantine if you have it to limit the spread. These are small, proportional measures to the danger I think.
- fallingknife 5y ago
  Flu is also dangerous to these people but we never wore masks. This is an edge case and it is the responsibility of these people to protect themselves.

JSavageOne 5y ago

Personally I'm completely sick of mask mandates. First off the effectiveness of masks is even questionable except for k95 masks, which are hideously uncomfortable and look ridiculous. In any case, I firmly believe that people should have the freedom to decide for themselves whether they want to wear them. I was in Copenhagen a few months ago where no one was wearing masks anywhere including indoors, and it was so refreshing seeing life as usual again, smiles on peoples' faces, etc.

amatecha 5y ago
I've been wearing KN95 at every outing for the past year+ and .. uhh.. it's not a problem at all. Why wouldn't I wear a mask like that to protect myself and others? The useless cloth and surgical masks are no more comfortable. Personally I bought a massive box of KN95 and give packages of them to family and friends so they can similarly stay safe.

csee 5y ago

I disagree with this language of "collective" sacrifice. A group can't sacrifice or suffer. Only individuals can sacrifice and suffer. Lockdowns are a sacrifice paid strictly by individuals.

nathanaldensr 5y ago

Call me crazy, but I thoroughly enjoy the unrestricted flow of oxygen into my mouth during inhalation and the unrestricted flow of carbon dioxide out of my mouth during exhalation.