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How many of the COVID-19 patients currently in hospitals really need to be there, and how many would be triaged out if more urgent cases presented? If a hospita

How many of the COVID-19 patients currently in hospitals really need to be there, and how many would be triaged out if more urgent cases presented? If a hospital has bed space, why would they not admit a COVID patient? It's money, and they are a business for the most part that wants to maximize revenue.

postsantum 5y ago
I fell like this rhetoric is fixed and is not changing with arrival of new data
joshuamorton 5y ago
The historical concern is that icus have been overfull. Those people need to be there. This is conspiracy fud.
dragontamer 5y ago
> How many of the COVID-19 patients currently in hospitals really need to be there, and how many would be triaged out if more urgent cases presented? https://www.wbaltv.com/article/covid-19-emergency-actions-maryland-january-4-2022/38663529 https://www.wbaltv.com/article/covid-19-emergency-actions-ma... Hospitals in my area have cut 20% of surgeries (ie: triaged out care to make room for COVID19). The governor has deployed National Guard to the hospitals to help out with tasks. Are you just blind to the issues happening right now? This is happening, this is happening now. Take off your blindfolds and talk to a damn nurse or doctor. This is happening all over the place as far as the eye can see. --------- Just call up your local-clinic and ask them for a flu-shot. Stand in line for 4-hours for things _COMPLETELY_ unrelated to COVID19, and come back and tell me that its fake. Go ask the receptionist "why is the line so long", and they'll tell you: COVID19. I know because I done it. (Well, not for a flu-shot but for a TDAP. Nearly the same thing)
- mgkimsal 5y ago
  yeah, but... you know... of course they're prioritizing all the COVID patients first, before anyone else, because they get more money from the government for 'COVID' patients! /s That was an actual exchange I had with someone a few weeks ago with this same scenario. They'd gone from 'it's all faked' to "well, yeah, there may be people there now, and they're taking resources from non-covid patients, but the govt wants it that way, that's why they pay hospital more for covid patients! they're incentivizing people getting covid!" I don't think it makes any sense at all, but interactions like these are more signs to me that it's harder to have meaningful interactions 'across the divide' these days.
- dubya 5y ago
  > Just call up your local-clinic and ask them for a flu-shot. Stand in line for 4-hours for things _COMPLETELY_ unrelated to COVID19, and come back and tell me that its fake. Note that this varies by where you are. Locally, there is no health care crunch: it's easy to get a flu shot or other vaccine with no wait, and ICUs still have capacity despite a huge increase in cases. We're probably screwed in a few weeks since there's only about a 60% vaccination rate here and the most recent surge didn't start until maybe two weeks ago.
ashtonkem 5y ago
People don’t agree to go to an ICU for funsies.
- rbanffy 5y ago
  But those machines are sooooo coool. Also, they give you ketamine to intubate, so more fun!
detaro 5y ago
"Triaged out" doesn't mean "doesn't need to be here". It just means "less likely to die tonight if not in ICU", if it is at the point where you are talking about "triage".
nograpes 5y ago
A good way to address your point would be to compare the situation to Canada. In the province of Quebec, where we have a highly vaccinated population, the intensive care units (ICUs) in all hospitals will be full within two weeks, if the rate of transmission and hospitalization continue this way. Demand greatly outstrips supply. In Canada, the financial incentives for hospitalization and discharge are very different. Physicians get paid by a complex mix of hourly pay in addition to a fee-for-service schedule, both paid by the government. Hospitals get paid by the type of patient they admit, and their length of stay, but not always in a straightforward way. In Canada, because of the remuneration system, physicians are the most influential decision-makers in deciding who gets to use the ICU. Roughly, no one doesn't get admitted "because they can't pay", and no one gets admitted "because they have money" . Since hospitals are overwhelmed in Quebec, physician's incentive would be to discharge patients rather than admit. Their hourly wage wouldn't rise if they got more patients. Indeed, there is some evidence that as ICU capacity drops, physicians start discharging patients from the ICU earlier. I should be fair to physicians in Quebec: their behaviour reflects a deep concern about the public health emergency rather than their financial gain. I believe that, in Canada, all hospitalized patients in the ICU really need to be there. Source: I have been studying hospitalizations due to COVID-19 illness in Quebec, Canada, and providing forecasts to the local government since the start of the pandemic.

postsantum 5y ago

I fell like this rhetoric is fixed and is not changing with arrival of new data

joshuamorton 5y ago

The historical concern is that icus have been overfull. Those people need to be there. This is conspiracy fud.

dragontamer 5y ago

> How many of the COVID-19 patients currently in hospitals really need to be there, and how many would be triaged out if more urgent cases presented? https://www.wbaltv.com/article/covid-19-emergency-actions-maryland-january-4-2022/38663529 https://www.wbaltv.com/article/covid-19-emergency-actions-ma... Hospitals in my area have cut 20% of surgeries (ie: triaged out care to make room for COVID19). The governor has deployed National Guard to the hospitals to help out with tasks. Are you just blind to the issues happening right now? This is happening, this is happening now. Take off your blindfolds and talk to a damn nurse or doctor. This is happening all over the place as far as the eye can see. --------- Just call up your local-clinic and ask them for a flu-shot. Stand in line for 4-hours for things _COMPLETELY_ unrelated to COVID19, and come back and tell me that its fake. Go ask the receptionist "why is the line so long", and they'll tell you: COVID19. I know because I done it. (Well, not for a flu-shot but for a TDAP. Nearly the same thing)

mgkimsal 5y ago
yeah, but... you know... of course they're prioritizing all the COVID patients first, before anyone else, because they get more money from the government for 'COVID' patients! /s That was an actual exchange I had with someone a few weeks ago with this same scenario. They'd gone from 'it's all faked' to "well, yeah, there may be people there now, and they're taking resources from non-covid patients, but the govt wants it that way, that's why they pay hospital more for covid patients! they're incentivizing people getting covid!" I don't think it makes any sense at all, but interactions like these are more signs to me that it's harder to have meaningful interactions 'across the divide' these days.
dubya 5y ago
> Just call up your local-clinic and ask them for a flu-shot. Stand in line for 4-hours for things _COMPLETELY_ unrelated to COVID19, and come back and tell me that its fake. Note that this varies by where you are. Locally, there is no health care crunch: it's easy to get a flu shot or other vaccine with no wait, and ICUs still have capacity despite a huge increase in cases. We're probably screwed in a few weeks since there's only about a 60% vaccination rate here and the most recent surge didn't start until maybe two weeks ago.

ashtonkem 5y ago

People don’t agree to go to an ICU for funsies.

rbanffy 5y ago
But those machines are sooooo coool. Also, they give you ketamine to intubate, so more fun!

detaro 5y ago

"Triaged out" doesn't mean "doesn't need to be here". It just means "less likely to die tonight if not in ICU", if it is at the point where you are talking about "triage".

nograpes 5y ago

A good way to address your point would be to compare the situation to Canada. In the province of Quebec, where we have a highly vaccinated population, the intensive care units (ICUs) in all hospitals will be full within two weeks, if the rate of transmission and hospitalization continue this way. Demand greatly outstrips supply. In Canada, the financial incentives for hospitalization and discharge are very different. Physicians get paid by a complex mix of hourly pay in addition to a fee-for-service schedule, both paid by the government. Hospitals get paid by the type of patient they admit, and their length of stay, but not always in a straightforward way. In Canada, because of the remuneration system, physicians are the most influential decision-makers in deciding who gets to use the ICU. Roughly, no one doesn't get admitted "because they can't pay", and no one gets admitted "because they have money" . Since hospitals are overwhelmed in Quebec, physician's incentive would be to discharge patients rather than admit. Their hourly wage wouldn't rise if they got more patients. Indeed, there is some evidence that as ICU capacity drops, physicians start discharging patients from the ICU earlier. I should be fair to physicians in Quebec: their behaviour reflects a deep concern about the public health emergency rather than their financial gain. I believe that, in Canada, all hospitalized patients in the ICU really need to be there. Source: I have been studying hospitalizations due to COVID-19 illness in Quebec, Canada, and providing forecasts to the local government since the start of the pandemic.