4 ms·

It's a race to the bottom, but is there a realistic solution that still provides choice and opportunity to both men and women? Once everyone has options, the "d

It's a race to the bottom, but is there a realistic solution that still provides choice and opportunity to both men and women? Once everyone has options, the "defector" couples who send both spouses to work make financial gains over those who would rather not, until there's not as much of a choice left for those making typical incomes.

kdmccormick 5y ago
It is a race to the bottom, isn't it? What about a generous, gender-blind stipend for families in which only one parent is employed? Might get tricky for the case of separated or single parents, but there are already a lot of careful laws and tax provisions there, so I imagine a system with the right incentives could be designed?
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  The achievement of freedom for the individuals/small units is commonly in conflict with the goal for the larger collective. I see this play out in many aspects of life and is a constant source of tension, for how to let the top soar (race to the bottom is also race to the top), while also continuing to lift the floor for those at the bottom. Some examples are the constant debate about schooling and segregating kids, to higher achieving children in families moving away to achieve success, but leaving other members of the family behind, to various companies achieving outsize gains and leaving behind or obviating other industries in a society.
- watwut 5y ago
  It is called parental leave, formerly known as maternity leave.
  - kdmccormick 5y ago
    I am suggesting something that (1) lasts from late pregnancy through to the child's 18th birthday and (2) is payed directly by the government, not by an employer who expects you to return.
AnthonyMouse 5y ago
> It's a race to the bottom, but is there a realistic solution that still provides choice and opportunity to both men and women? The core of the race to the bottom is artificial scarcity. You need a house, another family needs a house, there is only one house. If they have two incomes and you don't, they get the house, but it costs them the second income. Better solution: Build another house. Then you can have one without a second income and they can spend the second income on vacations or something. But we have zoning restrictions prohibiting that, hence the problem. That's the biggest example, but artificial scarcity exists in other places. Education is a big one. For K-12, get school vouchers and stop tying it to housing costs -- that will also help with housing costs. Make more of stuff instead of forcing people to outbid each other for artificially constrained supply and the extra income becomes extra income instead of the baseline you need in order to stand still.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  >Make more of stuff instead of forcing people to outbid each other for artificially constrained supply and the extra income becomes extra income instead of the baseline you need in order to stand still. While I agree with the gist of your comment, the reality is that humans create artificial scarcity regardless of actually supply in many scenarios. The want to compete is deeply ingrained in the mating process, and it inevitably manifests as participants of society outbidding each other for something.
  - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
    So let the artificial scarcity be in vapid signaling bullshit instead of necessities you actually need to live and thrive. Look at me, I have more expensive art than you. Your car is efficient and reliable but mine costs three times more and has the right logo. Better yet, I donate more to charity than you. Competition for true scarcity is fine. Competition for artificial scarcity deserves to burn.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      That competition is at least partly responsible for the zoning laws. The standard real estate advice is to buy the cheapest house in the most expensive neighborhood you can afford, so that your kids can be surrounded by kids of parents of better means and resources, thereby strengthening their network.

kdmccormick 5y ago

It is a race to the bottom, isn't it? What about a generous, gender-blind stipend for families in which only one parent is employed? Might get tricky for the case of separated or single parents, but there are already a lot of careful laws and tax provisions there, so I imagine a system with the right incentives could be designed?

lotsofpulp 5y ago
The achievement of freedom for the individuals/small units is commonly in conflict with the goal for the larger collective. I see this play out in many aspects of life and is a constant source of tension, for how to let the top soar (race to the bottom is also race to the top), while also continuing to lift the floor for those at the bottom. Some examples are the constant debate about schooling and segregating kids, to higher achieving children in families moving away to achieve success, but leaving other members of the family behind, to various companies achieving outsize gains and leaving behind or obviating other industries in a society.
watwut 5y ago
It is called parental leave, formerly known as maternity leave.
- kdmccormick 5y ago
  I am suggesting something that (1) lasts from late pregnancy through to the child's 18th birthday and (2) is payed directly by the government, not by an employer who expects you to return.

AnthonyMouse 5y ago

> It's a race to the bottom, but is there a realistic solution that still provides choice and opportunity to both men and women? The core of the race to the bottom is artificial scarcity. You need a house, another family needs a house, there is only one house. If they have two incomes and you don't, they get the house, but it costs them the second income. Better solution: Build another house. Then you can have one without a second income and they can spend the second income on vacations or something. But we have zoning restrictions prohibiting that, hence the problem. That's the biggest example, but artificial scarcity exists in other places. Education is a big one. For K-12, get school vouchers and stop tying it to housing costs -- that will also help with housing costs. Make more of stuff instead of forcing people to outbid each other for artificially constrained supply and the extra income becomes extra income instead of the baseline you need in order to stand still.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
>Make more of stuff instead of forcing people to outbid each other for artificially constrained supply and the extra income becomes extra income instead of the baseline you need in order to stand still. While I agree with the gist of your comment, the reality is that humans create artificial scarcity regardless of actually supply in many scenarios. The want to compete is deeply ingrained in the mating process, and it inevitably manifests as participants of society outbidding each other for something.
- AnthonyMouse 5y ago
  So let the artificial scarcity be in vapid signaling bullshit instead of necessities you actually need to live and thrive. Look at me, I have more expensive art than you. Your car is efficient and reliable but mine costs three times more and has the right logo. Better yet, I donate more to charity than you. Competition for true scarcity is fine. Competition for artificial scarcity deserves to burn.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    That competition is at least partly responsible for the zoning laws. The standard real estate advice is to buy the cheapest house in the most expensive neighborhood you can afford, so that your kids can be surrounded by kids of parents of better means and resources, thereby strengthening their network.