6 ms·

So the current arrangement of service workers being paid slave wages and given disgusting conditions is working fine?

by jason0597 5y ago

busterarm 5y ago
My three union jobs were service worker jobs; what are you trying to imply here?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
AnthonyMouse 5y ago
"This is fine" is not the same thing as "X is not the solution to this." Example better solution: UBI, so that those workers can tell the boss where to stick it without starving to death, and the company then has to offer better working conditions in order to convince anyone to show up.
bagacrap 5y ago
I don't see how individual unions help solve this problem. A union that makes meaningful changes to conditions and wages at one employer would hobble that employer's ability to compete, they'd go out of business, and a non-unionized workforce/employer would replace them. This seems like a job for government and/or market forces. The latter actually have been working well recently near where I live, as the labor shortage has caused many employers in the restaurant industry to raise starting salaries to ~$20/hr before tips. That said, this article is about tech workers, not line cooks, so any conclusions drawn from union experiences at $COFFEECHAIN are perhaps not easily mappable to Google.
- handoflixue 5y ago
  Do you have examples of how unionization destroys the ability to compete? Because I know of tons of union jobs around where I live, and they routinely compete with non-union jobs. Many of the union companies are major players who have been around for decades, which suggests that a happy, well-treated workforce might actually be an advantage.
  - bagacrap 5y ago
    Detroit based auto makers would be the most obvious example. If agreeing to union demands did not in some way cost the employer something, why would it need to be bargained out of them?
    - handoflixue 5y ago
      > If agreeing to union demands did not in some way cost the employer something, why would it need to be bargained out of them? It costs them control and social status. A lot of people have egos that don't like yielding either of those, even if it's otherwise a win-win exchange. Middle management has a huge incentive to produce short-term resume-building actions at the expense of long-term gains, so you should be able to quite fruitfully thwart those executives and produce gains for both the company and the rest of employees.
bradleyjg 5y ago
Why do you think such a strident and unnuanced statement is going to be convincing to someone that’s already implied he has direct experience in the subject? Don’t you have any real questions for someone that lived it, instead of the same party line all the time?

So the current arrangement of service workers being paid slave wages and given disgusting conditions is working fine?

busterarm 5y ago

My three union jobs were service worker jobs; what are you trying to imply here?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

AnthonyMouse 5y ago

"This is fine" is not the same thing as "X is not the solution to this." Example better solution: UBI, so that those workers can tell the boss where to stick it without starving to death, and the company then has to offer better working conditions in order to convince anyone to show up.

bagacrap 5y ago

I don't see how individual unions help solve this problem. A union that makes meaningful changes to conditions and wages at one employer would hobble that employer's ability to compete, they'd go out of business, and a non-unionized workforce/employer would replace them. This seems like a job for government and/or market forces. The latter actually have been working well recently near where I live, as the labor shortage has caused many employers in the restaurant industry to raise starting salaries to ~$20/hr before tips. That said, this article is about tech workers, not line cooks, so any conclusions drawn from union experiences at $COFFEECHAIN are perhaps not easily mappable to Google.

handoflixue 5y ago
Do you have examples of how unionization destroys the ability to compete? Because I know of tons of union jobs around where I live, and they routinely compete with non-union jobs. Many of the union companies are major players who have been around for decades, which suggests that a happy, well-treated workforce might actually be an advantage.
- bagacrap 5y ago
  Detroit based auto makers would be the most obvious example. If agreeing to union demands did not in some way cost the employer something, why would it need to be bargained out of them?
  - handoflixue 5y ago
    > If agreeing to union demands did not in some way cost the employer something, why would it need to be bargained out of them? It costs them control and social status. A lot of people have egos that don't like yielding either of those, even if it's otherwise a win-win exchange. Middle management has a huge incentive to produce short-term resume-building actions at the expense of long-term gains, so you should be able to quite fruitfully thwart those executives and produce gains for both the company and the rest of employees.

bradleyjg 5y ago

Why do you think such a strident and unnuanced statement is going to be convincing to someone that’s already implied he has direct experience in the subject? Don’t you have any real questions for someone that lived it, instead of the same party line all the time?